Full dash cam video of OHP/Ambulance scuffle [Archive]

legelegel

06-13-2009, 11:04 PM

It's too bad we didn't see how quick the trooper approached the ambulance.

What exactly was the comment about the rear view mirror after the OHP cruiser passed the ambulance?

There are three things that pissed this trooper off and got him going:

1) the perceived failure to yield to his vehicle;
2) the perceived high sign or hand gesture; and
3) the failure of his unit to get to the perceived emergency first, which probably pissed him off more than the first two.

There is just too much perceiving in these series of events.

There are times you wonder why some people are allowed to carry guns under the color of law.

The problem is some people enjoy their authority over others a bit too much.

Lewis the Pike

06-14-2009, 02:30 AM

I don't think it was much of a race thing, but it was clearly an asshole thing.

You don't interrupt a medical delivery, you follow them up to the hospital, or you get the tag number and deal with it later.

I am guessing the trooper uses his badge to compensate for a major shortcoming he has between his legs.

Superaggie2

06-14-2009, 08:12 AM

Any more updates on what the results were,and what happened to all parties involved?

WyomingOSUAlum

06-14-2009, 04:59 PM

I am guessing the trooper uses his badge to compensate for a major shortcoming he has between his legs.

Don't we all?

WyomingOSUAlum

06-14-2009, 05:05 PM

The problem is some people enjoy their authority over others a bit too much.

Bingo.

If you aren't humbled just a bit every time you put on the uniform, you need to be doing something else for a living. Same thing for going to court. Being an officer just isn't the same thing as being God. Some people just don't get that.

Verb

06-14-2009, 06:34 PM

Good lord. That is horrendous. I hadn't really paid any attention to this story until now. I am horrified.

So is there anything to justify that officer putting his hands around that EMT's throat? Is that standard procedure?

That guy should already have been fired.

orangeblood

06-15-2009, 02:58 PM

As an EMS Director, that Trooper should be fired. He stepped way over the line! That paramedic did what he was suppose to do. He is in charge of that truck and he his only concern was the patient!

That trooper had a severe case of the big head!!!!! Anger management issues! Just because they didnt jump out and bow down to him, his anger took over!

I would give the Paramedic a raise!

legelegel

06-15-2009, 03:13 PM

I think the trooper's mindset was still in a far away land, and I was wondering if those lights and sirens were on or off.
The attorney representing a trooper who was involved in a scuffle with a paramedic is speaking out to defend his client's reputation.

The Okfuskee County District Attorney has declined to file charges against anyone involved. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol has completed an investigation of the incident but have not released the results.
Attorney Gary Jones said the ongoing OHP investigation prevented Martin from telling his side of the story.
Trooper Martin returned from serving in Iraq two months ago and Jones said he was a Hometown hero until the "undue" publicity of the scuffle with the paramedic tarnished his reputation.
Jones said Trooper Martin was within his legal authority to stop the ambulance because the ambulance was not running with its lights or sirens on. http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=10535267

wickerbill

06-15-2009, 03:36 PM

Now the trooper's attorney is bad-mouthing the paramedic.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090615_12_0_OKLAHO620450

Of course, the trooper received the ultimate law enforcement punishment for his actions. A PAID VACATION for the past two weeks!!!! They call it "paid administrative leave". I need to fly off the handle at my job and see if I can get that as my "punishment". I could use some time off.

Verb

06-15-2009, 03:45 PM

I find it really repulsive that the OHP and officer just don't apologize and own up. This is a battle they can't win with the public.

AnniePokely

06-15-2009, 03:58 PM

No, the OHP won't win this one with the public. In fact, they're losing terribly.

GoPokes83

06-15-2009, 04:14 PM

This video shows the OHP officer in a VERY bad light, but IMO before firing him you need to take his prior actions into account before throwing him completely under the proverbial bus. If he's been an exemplary offficer before this one incident then reprimand, retrain, and give him a second chance. If he's Officer O'Tool most of the time send him a packin'!

Lewis the Pike

06-15-2009, 05:04 PM

It seemed like the driver was doing the "yessir, yessir three bags full," just so he could get back on the road.

As for what either paramedic did, I find no fault for them from a common sense point of view.

It just boggles my mind that a trooper would stop an emergency vehicle en route to a hospital, and not take the tag # and call it in and discuss it with the driver and paramedic AFTER the call.

PS Wyoming, not all troopers are compensating, just the ones flying off the handle like this guy.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-15-2009, 07:31 PM

It just boggles my mind that a trooper would stop an emergency vehicle en route to a hospital, and not take the tag # and call it in and discuss it with the driver and paramedic AFTER the call.

Yeah. All he had to do was use his X-ray vision to see that there was a patient in the back of that ambulance. What a doofus!

legelegel

06-15-2009, 07:59 PM

Yeah. All he had to do was use his X-ray vision to see that there was a patient in the back of that ambulance. What a doofus!

WOSUA, I'm sure Voodoo didn't read that the vehicle emergency signals weren't on.

AnniePokely

06-15-2009, 08:06 PM

Yeah. All he had to do was use his X-ray vision to see that there was a patient in the back of that ambulance. What a doofus!

Nice, but that's won't fly. He didn't need XRay vision. Once they told him there WAS a patient in the back, which was immediately, he should have checked his stupid ass ego at the door and let them continue with the transport. Period.

wickerbill

06-15-2009, 08:36 PM

WyomingOSUAlum

06-15-2009, 08:55 PM

Nice, but that's won't fly. He didn't need XRay vision. Once they told him there WAS a patient in the back, which was immediately, he should have checked his stupid ass ego at the door and let them continue with the transport. Period.

Take another look at what I was responding to. I'm talking about BEFORE the traffic stop happened, not after. Lewis was talking about BEFORE the traffic stop happened. So was I. Nobody outside the ambulance knew a patient was inside until AFTER the traffic stop.

Christ Almighty. I'm not defending the officer, who was a complete DICKHEAD. However, if the guy did 10 things wrong, I want him to hang for those 10 things only, that's all.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-15-2009, 08:59 PM

BTW, I predict the guy gets fired. And sued.

And one more thing, he shouldn't have checked his ego after he found out the patient was on board. He should have checked it prior to leaving the house in the morning. What a textbook case of what can happen when you think you're God when you're really not! Classic!

AnniePokely

06-15-2009, 09:05 PM

WyomingOSUAlum

06-15-2009, 09:05 PM

But then he wouldn't get a paid vacation!!!!

The whole "administrative leave" concept doesn't bother me nearly as much as how somebody is dragging their feet on this matter. If a guy is wrongly accused, then he needs to be paid while the investigation is ongoing. That's fine by me.

If I read you right on this, though, we will agree that this has taken too damn long to settle. The facts of this aren't going to change. The evidence is there for the whole world to see. This guy should have already been punished. The fact that it's dragging on this long does nothing but further erode the trust of the public, IMO.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-15-2009, 09:13 PM

It's on every channel, at every broadcast. Those of you not in Oklahoma can't begin to imagine the kind of attention this is getting!

Tonight, the EMT speaks on KOCO.

I LOVE cops. I love hipos. I knows lots of both. None of them I know are dildos like this guy.

Oh, I hear you. I know it's big. But I believe it keeps getting even bigger because nothing has really been done to the guy. Something like this needs swift and decisive action. What happened after this hit the fan? Well, the guy was still working just like it was no big deal.

That's just nuts. When one of your guys does something good, you make sure you put out a press release so the public can see what a good job you're doing. When one of your guys effs up, address the problem. IMMEDIATELY.

PokesFanatic

06-15-2009, 09:15 PM

That OHP was WAY out of line there. IMO, 'support of county' is NOT more important than taking someone to the hospital in an ambulance. I hope they sue the ever loving crap out of him.

These holier than thou cops really need to lose the god complex.

PokesFanatic

06-15-2009, 09:27 PM

WOSUA, I'm sure Voodoo didn't read that the vehicle emergency signals weren't on.

There are apparently laws that allow an ambulance to run with neither lights or siren if it keeps the patient calm.

In light of that, this cop was way, way, way over the line. I honestly hope the guy gets desk duty for about four years.

I'm sorry, but a medical emergency simply trumps the trooper keeping his pride. He got bent out of shape way too quick and there was nothing to prevent him from letting the EMT take the woman to the hospital before detaining him. In fact, that's what the medic suggested. He was acting in his patient's best interest. The trooper was just being a horse's ass.

pistolpete2002

06-16-2009, 07:35 AM

snuffy

06-16-2009, 07:37 AM

My question is, if the OHP guy was "running hot" I assuming that what it means to have your lights on after someone or going somewhere, what happened to the call or whatever he was previously doing?? The guy looked like he was flying to get somewhere quick, and then he just pulled over, hid between 2 cars, waited for the ambulance to pass and pull them over, again I wonder why he was "running hot" and then that become secondary and pulling over the ambulance became primary???

Anyone understand what I'm saying or trying to say??? :) :)

I know what you are saying and had the same question after watching it. Even if he got called away from where he originally was supposed to be, the gas station, why did he stop then?

TheLoveDoctor

06-16-2009, 07:43 AM

So are the OHP and EMS not on the same radio? I figured they could talk to each other even if they had to switch frequencies.

jakeman

06-16-2009, 07:59 AM

So are the OHP and EMS not on the same radio? I figured they could talk to each other even if they had to switch frequencies.

Nope

legelegel

06-16-2009, 08:08 AM

http://newsok.com/trooper-daniel-martins-lawyer-blames-media-for-escalating-emt-confrontation-coverage/article/3378151?custom_click=lead_story_photo

jakeman

06-16-2009, 08:08 AM

My question is, if the OHP guy was "running hot" I'm assuming thats what it means to have your lights on after someone or going somewhere, what happened to the call or whatever he was previously doing?? The guy looked like he was flying to get somewhere quick, and then he just pulled over, hid between 2 cars, waited for the ambulance to pass and pulled them over, again I wonder why he was "running hot" and then that become secondary and pulling over the ambulance became primary???

Anyone understand what I'm saying or trying to say??? :) :)

Happens all the time. A broadcast goes out, several officers start in the direction of the call and whomever gets there first lets the other responding officers know if they need to continue rolling code, or if the situation is in hand and it isn't necessary to run with lights & siren.

The problem is, when the general public sees a guy running "hot", as you put it, and then the lights go dark and the siren silent, they think he was just hurrying home after work, racing to the donut shop, or just abusing his power to beat a red light. I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I'm just saying there are other reasons for the lights & sirens to be turned off other than him arriving at a bank robbery or a fatality accident.

I also think the guy needs to be disciplined. I'm also in agreement with the previous poster that spoke about possible previous issues of this nature. If this type of thing has been a problem in the past with this guy he probably should be fired.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 08:26 AM

They were all wrong. End of story. The medics screwed up and the trooper overreacted.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 08:26 AM

So are the OHP and EMS not on the same radio? I figured they could talk to each other even if they had to switch frequencies.

He (OHP) said to them (EMS) over the radio "You really should check your rearview mirrors."

so they could talk over the radio.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 08:34 AM

They were all wrong. End of story. The medics screwed up and the trooper overreacted.

Failure to yield. It brought on all of this.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-16-2009, 08:35 AM

There are apparently laws that allow an ambulance to run with neither lights or siren if it keeps the patient calm.

Not in Oklahoma. An ambulance can exceed the speed limit in an emergency situation, but must use lights and siren.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 08:58 AM

Failure to yield. It brought on all of this.

No, it was a failure to yield and a finger from the driver. The driver may have perceived that the trooper had no emergency either.

It turns out that neither of the parties had to be in a hurry, but everyone got mad.

jakeman

06-16-2009, 09:01 AM

He (OHP) said to them (EMS) over the radio "You really should check your rearview mirrors."

so they could talk over the radio.

Unless they have made some changes, they don't share any frequencies.

My guess would be he spoke to him on his PA as he went by.

Maybe they do share frequencies now, I couldn't know.

Wyo, do you guys share frequencies with state or municipal officers or fire or EMT's?

Edit - I just read some of the EMT's report. The trooper did indeed have the ability to speak to them over the radio. I stand corrected.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 09:11 AM

No, it was a failure to yield and a finger from the driver. The driver may have perceived that the trooper had no emergency either.

It turns out that neither of the parties had to be in a hurry, but everyone got mad.

The "finger from the driver" isn't shown on the videotape, and I call BS on it. The officer stated over the radio "You really should check your rearview mirrors." right after the driver *supposedly* flipped him the bird? 1+1 isn't adding up to 2.

jakeman

06-16-2009, 09:15 AM

Here is a copy of the EMT's report to his supervisor, if anyone wants to read it.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:LzowQtskSSMJ:www.fox23.com/media/news/b/4/4/b4451728-7467-47c5-b259-3ebd3e9b0e10/Ambulance_Incident_Reports.pdf+creek+nation+emt+fr equency&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

jakeman

06-16-2009, 09:17 AM

The "finger from the driver" isn't shown on the videotape, and I call BS on it. The officer stated over the radio "You really should check your rearview mirrors." right after the driver *supposedly* flipped him the bird? 1+1 isn't adding up to 2.

I wasn't there, and you can't see anything about that on the film, but I'm a little suspect of that myself.

I don't think the driver would do that with a patient's family member sitting in the front seat with him, but hey, I couldn't really know.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 09:19 AM

The "finger from the driver" isn't shown on the videotape, and I call BS on it. The officer stated over the radio "You really should check your rearview mirrors." right after the driver *supposedly* flipped him the bird? 1+1 isn't adding up to 2.

As to the BS, maybe so. Only the trooper saw what he thought he saw. Maybe the driver was being a bit smart after the fact. Maybe the driver has a history of being a smart ass. Who knows.

The alleged finger incident happened as the ambulance was passing the trooper after he had stopped at his perceived emergency location.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 09:20 AM

I can't imagine for one second how the patient felt during all of this. How scary that must have been for a woman who was already suffering from a heat stroke.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 09:21 AM

As to the BS, maybe so. Only the trooper saw what he thought he saw. Maybe the driver was being a bit smart after the fact. Maybe the driver has a history of being a smart ass. Who knows.

Three people said it didn't happen. The driver, the rider in the front seat (non EMS passenger) and the paramedic.

"One last very disturbing Fact. After we had arrived at Prague hospital, officer 606 told my partner,Paul Franks that he had determined in his mind to escalate to pulling has service revolver and usingdeadly force. Again, this was all due to the mistaken idea that he (606) he had been "flipped off"."

That should concern everyone.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 09:29 AM

Three people said it didn't happen. The driver, the rider in the front seat (non EMS passenger) and the paramedic.

The only one there that could be lying is the driver. If the driver did do it, he surely would have tried to hide it from his passenger and the paramedic in the back.

"One last very disturbing Fact. After we had arrived at Prague hospital, officer 606 told my partner,Paul Franks that he had determined in his mind to escalate to pulling has service revolver and usingdeadly force. Again, this was all due to the mistaken idea that he (606) he had been "flipped off"."

That should concern everyone. Now that is more likely to be BS than the finger.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 09:33 AM

The paramedic in the back should have just stayed in the back with the patient instead of busting out and trying to have a pissing contest with a highway patrolman.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 09:36 AM

Legal, it's in the EMS report from Jake's link above

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 09:53 AM

The only one there that could be lying is the driver. If the driver did do it, he surely would have tried to hide it from his passenger and the paramedic in the back.

Quite beside the point. Being offended is NO justification for risking the health of the patient inside the car or for assaulting an attending paramedic.

The guy is clearly a maladjusted hothead that is in no condition to be patrolling the highways of OK. He clearly hasn't made the adjustment back to civilian life.

I honestly think this is a psych matter and it should go on his record. I think the risk he took with the health of the woman in the ambulance alone justifies that.

Sadly, the more likely scenario is that it gets swept under the rug.

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 09:59 AM

The paramedic in the back should have just stayed in the back with the patient instead of busting out and trying to have a pissing contest with a highway patrolman.

Roman, read the report linked in Jake's post. The paramedic saw a passenger in the trooper's vehicle and thought there was need for medical assistance. Beyond that, the guy had a duty to convey to the officer that they were transporting a patient. He was told he would be arrested, and all he requested is that all of that be taken care of after he'd successfully transported the patient to a care facility. The guy was doing his sworn duty in all of this. It was the cop that couldn't let it go because he perceived that he had been flipped off. The guy just couldn't live down being offended by someone so he risks the health of the patient in the ambulance and roughs up a paramedic.

I call BS. There is a way to handle that situation and it bears no resemblance to the way Trooper 606 handled it. It should have stopped the moment he was informed they were transporting a patient. Afterwards was when he could write tickets or have a word with them.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 09:59 AM

Legal, it's in the EMS report from Jake's link above

Thank you.

It appears that there were only two people in the ambulance with the patient, that is the driver, Paul Franks, EMT-B, Medic 60357 and Maurice White Jr., Critical Care Paramedic.

Who was the other passenger that was a witness to this incident, Annie?

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 10:05 AM

Roman, read the report linked in Jake's post. The paramedic saw a passenger in the trooper's vehicle and thought there was need for medical assistance. Beyond that, the guy had a duty to convey to the officer that they were transporting a patient. He was told he would be arrested, and all he requested is that all of that be taken care of after he'd successfully transported the patient to a care facility. The guy was doing his sworn duty in all of this. It was the cop that couldn't let it go because he perceived that he had been flipped off. The guy just couldn't live down being offended by someone so he risks the health of the patient in the ambulance and roughs up a paramedic.

I call BS. There is a way to handle that situation and it bears no resemblance to the way Trooper 606 handled it. It should have stopped the moment he was informed they were transporting a patient. Afterwards was when he could write tickets or have a word with them.

I agree with the bolded 100%. In that video, he busted out yelling at the cop, at no point did he think someone needed medical attention. He also didn't tell him they were transporting until they knew he was pulling them over for a violation.

What pi$$ed him off is when the ambulance crossed the yellow line while he was trying to get around them.

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 10:10 AM

Thank you.

It appears that there were only two people in the ambulance with the patient, that is the driver, Paul Franks, EMT-B, Medic 60357 and Maurice White Jr., Critical Care Paramedic.

Who was the other passenger that was a witness to this incident, Annie?

The report doesn't specify the identity of the passenger, but you know it's a female that knew the patient, so it's one of the women listed as witnesses from the first group.

I would gather she (and everyone else) would be willing to testify to the accuracy of the report, as far as she is aware. I'm sure the other family members would do the same. It's a case of about ten to one with the one being the State Trooper.

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 10:19 AM

I agree with the bolded 100%. In that video, he busted out yelling at the cop, at no point did he think someone needed medical attention. He also didn't tell him they were transporting until they knew he was pulling them over for a violation.

What pi$ him off is when the ambulance crossed the yellow line while he was trying to get around them.

No he didn't. He stepped out of the rear of the ambulance and upon recognizing the hypo said something to the effect of, "oh, it's you" inquiring as to the situation. It was the hypo that was hot from the get-go.

Furthermore, there is nowhere on that video that shows the ambulance crossing the yellow line when he tried to pass. All they supposedly did was not get over quickly enough and the driver supposedly flipped the hypo off even though two witnesses say it was the two hands up gesture of, 'what was I supposed to do?'.

I cannot fathom how this cop's actions are justified under the circumstances.

EDIT: Upon watching another, extended, version of the dash cam, the ambulance did get over, but it was to pass a car that had pulled onto the shoulder of the road. The ambulance was apparently running without lights or siren to keep the patient calm, which is purportedly not out of the norm.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 10:26 AM

No he didn't. He stepped out of the rear of the ambulance and upon recognizing the hypo said something to the effect of, "oh, it's you" inquiring as to the situation. It was the hypo that was hot from the get-go.

Furthermore, there is nowhere on that video that shows the ambulance crossing the yellow line when he tried to pass. All they supposedly did was not get over quickly enough and the driver supposedly flipped the hypo off even though two witnesses say it was the two hands up gesture of, 'what was I supposed to do?'.

I cannot fathom how this cop's actions are justified under the circumstances.

In no way, shape or form were they justified. I am just pointing out that the medics were equally at fault in this and did nothing but antagonize the dude. The medics or the trooper should not be defended because they were both unprofessional jackasses. The medics were not sweet and innocent in this matter, they should share equal blame.

Verb

06-16-2009, 10:33 AM

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 10:38 AM

I simply do not agree with this assessment AT ALL.

Thats ok. I am speaking from a standpoint that I know who the trooper is. I personally think he has no business being a highway patrolman. Honestly, I thought he was an a$$hole when I knew him, but I think the medics were very, very unprofessional and if they were the medics that I oversee, we would be looking for different ones.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 10:50 AM

Furthermore, there is nowhere on that video that shows the ambulance crossing the yellow line when he tried to pass. All they supposedly did was not get over quickly enough ...

That is not true. Before the trooper passed the ambulance, the ambulance crossed over a double yellow line.

... and the driver supposedly flipped the hypo off even though two witnesses say it was the two hands up gesture of, 'what was I supposed to do?'.There were two events with an accompanying gesture with each.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 11:01 AM

Did anyone notice that Trooper Martin addressed the driver as "Paul", and when he accused the driver of giving him the finger the driver didn't profusely deny it. I believe ol' Paul boy never thought Trooper Martin would be looking when he shot him the finger as he drove by him.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 11:07 AM

[quote=legelegel;76326]

It appears that there were only two people in the ambulance with the patient, that is the driver, Paul Franks, EMT-B, Medic 60357 and Maurice White Jr., Critical Care Paramedic.

[quote]

Incorrect.

"I and the front seat passenger in the ambulance canattest to the fact that this was not the case."

A passenger is not the driver. That indicates a third person (witness) in the ambulance.

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 11:09 AM

I simply do not agree with this assessment AT ALL.

Neither do I

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 11:11 AM

In no way, shape or form were they justified. I am just pointing out that the medics were equally at fault in this and did nothing but antagonize the dude. The medics or the trooper should not be defended because they were both unprofessional jackasses. The medics were not sweet and innocent in this matter, they should share equal blame.

Equal blame? No way. Granted, the paramedics weren't above reproach on this, but given the fact they were attempting to transport a patient and were being hounded by an OHP, I can't blame them. Were I the chief paramedic, I would have told him to stand down too.

Clearly, the situation merits review on both sides, but I think the medics did little wrong short of not having their lights on. Sirens off I can understand, but lights off apparently leads to confusion. I would also point out that no siren is audible on the beginning of the dash cam recording. I would like to think that should also be necessary when 'running hot' especially if you're out on the open highway.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-16-2009, 11:12 AM

We'll never know whether or not the ambulance driver flipped off the officer. Doesn't matter to me either way. But I firmly believe the officer THOUGHT he was flipped off. Fits in with the whole "I'm God and you're not" theory....

BTW, this has made the daily paper here again (AP story).

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 11:15 AM

There were two events with an accompanying gesture with each.

Please post where you're reading about two seperate events involving a hand gesture. I'm not seeing that.

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 11:16 AM

That is not true. Before the trooper passed the ambulance, the ambulance crossed over a double yellow line.

There were two events with an accompanying gesture with each.

Firstly, read the edit on my post. The ambulance crossed the yellow in order to pass a vehicle yielding to them. The report indicates, as does the video, that the ambulance driver was paying attention to the car in front of him to avoid a collision.

Beyond that, getting flipped off is NO EXCUSE for the way the trooper handled the situation. He should have just gotten over it. People get flipped off in traffic all the damned time and it's never justification to assault someone. Just because you wear a badge doesn't entitle you to be immune from being offended. It's constitutionally protected free speech. I would have done a lot more than just give that hypo the one finger salute, I can guarantee you.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 11:22 AM

Incorrect. Legal, please pay attention and read ALL of the transcript from the EMS. It seems you are missing parts of it.

"I and the front seat passenger in the ambulance canattest to the fact that this was not the case."

A passenger is not the driver. That indicates a third person in the ambulance.

I certainly missed that part of White's statement and this part of Franks' statement, too:

"The Trooper's vehicle passed me at a very high rate of speed causing me to remark to my passenger - 'Wow where did he come from?' "

I certainly didn't miss a lot of the self serving and questionable statements that were made by both White and Franks, because I saw the video.

White wouldn't get out Trooper Martin's face. I'm not sure how he should have been handled, but it certainly escalated quickly.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 11:40 AM

I certainly missed that part White's statement and this part of Franks' statement, too:

"The Trooper's vehicle passed me at a very high rate of speed causing me to remark to my passenger - 'Wow where did he come from?' "

I certainly didn't miss a lot of the self serving and questionable statements that were made by both White and Franks, because I saw the video.

White wouldn't get out Trooper Martin's face. I'm not sure how he should have been handled, but it certainly escalated quickly.

Yes. Basically what gets me is the medic is clearly looking for a fight instead of worrying about the patient in the back. The patient didn't come up until they realized they were under arrest.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 11:48 AM

The ambulance crossed the yellow in order to pass a vehicle yielding to them. The report indicates, as does the video, that the ambulance driver was paying attention to the car in front of him to avoid a collision.

The vehicle that was attempting to get off the road was not yielding to the ambulance was it?

It was the OHP car that had its siren and lights on when it approached and passed the ambulance. The ambulance never had its emergency signals on during the video.

When the OHP car approached the ambulance a second time, it would appear that only the lights of the OHP car were on.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 12:17 PM

Please post where you're reading about two seperate events involving a hand gesture. I'm not seeing that.

White's original statement to his employer was that a gesture of exasperation by driver Franks occurred when Trooper Martin passed him on the highway.

The gesture Trooper Martin said he witnessed was when the driver and his emergency vehicle passed by him.

White changed his story later and said Franks' gesture was later.

http://newsok.com/trooper-daniel-martins-lawyer-blames-media-for-escalating-emt-confrontation-coverage/article/3378151?custom_click=lead_story_photo

AnniePokely

06-16-2009, 12:32 PM

Each time i write up a response, you edit your post.

No where does it mention the trooper saying he was given a hand gesture on two seperate occassions. The two may differ on when the "hand gesture" was given, but three witnesses indicate it was not flipping him off. Three witnesses that were actually in the ambulance, one being right beside the driver, said it never happened.

It doesn't change the behavior of the trooper, nor is is relevant. Period. If he's going to lose his mind because someone flips him the bird, he needs some help. And lots of it.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 12:40 PM

legelegel

06-16-2009, 12:48 PM

My edits show up and yours do not, Annie.

White and Martin both had a bit of the God syndrome. White wanted to control the traffic stop and there was no way Martin was having it. I'm thinking there may be some more history with these three that could explain some of this.

Roman Craig

06-16-2009, 12:50 PM

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 01:00 PM

The vehicle that was attempting to get off the road was not yielding to the ambulance was it?

It was the OHP car that had its siren and lights on when it approached and passed the ambulance. The ambulance never had its emergency signals on during the video.

When the OHP car approached the ambulance a second time, it would appear that only the lights of the OHP car were on.

Watch this video:
http://cfc.ktul.com/videoondemand.cfm?id=42580

It shows the car yielding to the ambulance just as the patrol car rushes up to the back bumper of the ambulance.

As for running lights and sirens, it has been stated multiple times that the paramedics have discretion as to whether it is harmful for the patient. In other words, it was their option not to run them.

In my view, as soon as the trooper found out there was a patient on the ambulance, he should have told them to proceed to the hospital but prepare to deal with him afterward. Instead, he jumped out of his car with his voice raised, immediately escalating the situation.

legelegel

06-16-2009, 01:22 PM

It shows the car yielding to the ambulance just as the patrol car rushes up to the back bumper of the ambulance.

My point was: Why would the car be yielding to the ambulance when the ambulance did not have its lights or siren on? The driver of the car probably saw the ambulance and heard the OHP siren and moved off the road because of the combination of the two.

In my view, as soon as the trooper found out there was a patient on the ambulance, he should have told them to proceed to the hospital but prepare to deal with him afterward. Instead, he jumped out of his car with his voice raised, immediately escalating the situation.He probably should have done that, but his God complex got the better of him at the moment and he just could not back down from what he started.

PokesFanatic

06-16-2009, 01:31 PM

My point was: Why would the car be yielding to the ambulance when the ambulance did not have its lights or siren on? The driver of the car probably saw the ambulance and heard the OHP siren and moved off the road because of the combination of the two.

He probably should have done that, but his God complex got the better of him at the moment and he just could not back down from what he started.

As far as I've ever seen, ambulances are equipped with three or four sets of emergency lights, one of which is front only. How do we know he didn't use the front set of emergency lights to indicate to the driver that he needed around? Or, at the very least, what if he'd have flashed his headlights before the cop got that close?

Honestly, there were only a few seconds that went by in the initial contact. After the ambulance passed the other vehicle, the dash cam clearly shows the patrol car being squarely behind the ambulance, which might mean the chief paramedic had to tell him to get over.

It's easy to see the confusion, but none of these issues trumps getting the woman to the hospital before saving face. The chief paramedic agreed to surrender at the hospital, but the cop insisted on ticketing the driver right then and there because he didn't "put up with that ___t".

In no way do I feel the roads are safer with someone like that out there.

WyomingOSUAlum

06-16-2009, 04:23 PM

So how's the weather in Oklahoma today?

orangeblood

06-16-2009, 10:01 PM

It is up to the paramedic in charge if the ambulance needs to run lights, or siren. It all depends on the patient and whats going on with them at the time.

Was the paramedic perfect? No! Did he deserve to get choked? NO! that trooper was out of line no matter how you look at it. Badge or no badge he is not god!

I have alot of trooper and policer officer friends and they have to use some sort of control, this guy has a serious problem and needs some help!

kruxter

06-16-2009, 11:37 PM

The OHP officer was an out of control ass-hole. Did the EMT lose his patience? Yes for a moment. But the hypo was being a dick the entire time. He started the situation, he escalated the situation, and he could have put someone's life at risk. Dude needs to find another line of work tomorrow.