Clemens named in Mitchell Report

[topdaug]

According to ESPN the Magazine and just reported on Mike and Mike in the morning....anyone surprised?

[BourbonPoke]

I won't be surprised by any names in the report. We are going to find out that baseball is a pretty corrupt business I'm afraid. I'm guessing we still don't know the half of it. Sad really.

You know, it really shouldn't surprise us that this is happening. How else are some of these guys able to have the longevity in their careers without major injuries or losing much? They have to have some help synthetically IMO. Just the tip of the iceberg

[Lewis the Pike]

I won't be surprised by any names in the report. We are going to find out that baseball is a pretty corrupt business I'm afraid.

hopefully they are only half as corrupt as college athletics.

[topdaug]

Got this from another board...supposedly, it's the list, but there are a couple names twice, as well as several misspellings, so take it for what it's worth...


Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

[PokeNBeans]

Lot of familiar names, lot of retired names.

Ken Caminiti said he took steroids the year he won MVP while playing for the padres. He said he had made a lot of mistakes in his life, but taking steroids wasn't one of them. I took it to mean that he felt he had to take them to compete with the other players that were taking them. Steroids weren't illegal when a lot of the names on the list were playing.

[Boss 24]

The BS thing about this is this list is a group of guys that took something that affected the game of baseball.

Pete Rose bet on the game and never bet against his team. Theoretically never throwing a game.

These guys have made, can make or probably will make the HOF but Pete can't?

[Chief-Poke]

How many future Hall of Famers on that list?

[PokeNBeans]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Did you ever read the Dowd report about the Pete Rose investigation? It's worth a scan.

http://www.dowdreport.com/

[MarkOSU]

Ankiel was cleared this last week. He was taking legal prescribed steroids while recovering from surgery. MLB cleared him.

[MarkOSU]

Does knowing that pitchers were using change your view of the hitters that were?

[SeaOfOrange]

One name sticks out in my mind. The first one.

Brady Anderson. Never hit double digits in Homers. Did it in one year. Went to the Home-Run Derby. Then, the next year? Never heard from again.

Can I say that I wouldn't use them? It's like using Andro, before it's illegal.

I say get rid of Bud Selig, get a REAL commisioner that's willing to enforce the damaging growth "enhancement" drugs in blood tests and piss tests and stand by their actions. Until that happens, you'll get the same and more names will come out.

Also, let's not have a commissioner that isn't a current owner of a baseball team. (Just because he wants to 'resurrect' baseball after a money hungry strike.)

It seems to be the exception to the rule, and the reason that everybody seems to command a salary that is more in one year than the men that made us love the game ever make in a career.

[bigbadbob]

First, JD has quoted multiple times that it was in fact against the rules of baseball because it was against federal law.

Further, Bud Selig, while partly responsible for the use proliferation, isn't the only one, or even the worst. The players association through Fehr, are the strongest unions in pro sports. they time and again shot down drug testing. Even the enhanced drug testing that they are doing now, and for the past few years, is not nearly what Selig wanted or asked for, but the union rejected all other offers.

[jakeman]

Does knowing that pitchers were using change your view of the hitters that were?

Not really.

This is really gonna sound harsh. Everyone that can be proven to have taken steroids should have whatever records that they set wiped from the book. No asterisk, no "steroid era" records, nothing. Just not mentioned, ever. At least by MLB. Awards, including Cy Young, MVP, etc should be at least asked to be returned by MLB.

The game of baseball has always been about the numbers, always. It's one of the most important aspects of the game of baseball. These guys, whether on the mound or at the plate, have artificially inflated those numbers so that they might well be untouchable by players not taking performance enhancing drugs. If the game gets clean again, how would you be able to compare records and performances from this time frame to then?

Pursuit of records and record setting performances is good for baseball. How can you pursue those artificial records? It would be unfair to the game to take that away. Remember how Sosa and McGuire ignited the game, and the entire country, chasing Maris? Looking back now, it's like finding out Stoops and Co. threw the '01 and '02 Bedlam games. So while the luster is gone from that season in my memory, would it be fair to the game and the fans to almost ensure that the excitement of chasing a record like that would never take place in MLB again?

Those "enhanced records" need to go away. Forever, at least officially, in order to restore the games integrity.

It's a sad day, but hopefully better days are ahead. Hopefully baseball can one again rise from the ashes like the Phoenix and take it's rightful place in this country as America's Pastime.

[GoPokes82sMom]

I totally agree, jakeman. It is not fair to the players who didn't use those drugs, or to future players either.

[OState77]

Right on target jakeman. Things like the single season HR record should go back to 61, the all time back to 755, and any pitching records that were broken by these people should be completely erased.

All of them should be permanetly banned from any consideration for the Hall of Fame, and any that are already in should be removed. That may be a little draconian but it will send a message and hopefully let players in the future know that it is simply not worth the risk.

[backPhil]

I almost hate to mention this, but because the real "crime" in this steroids scandal is the "trickle down" damage done at the high school and college baseball (and probably football as well) level, I feel compelled to relate this story.

My son played highs chool baseball at Westmoore, in south OKC back in the the late 1990's. I remember his junior year when Stillwater came to play. They were ranked #1 in the West, and of course Westmoore beat them! :D Of course Matt was on the team, a senior, and Tom and his wife were in the stands.

I first met Tom Holliday back in 1977 when I attempted to walk on at oSu. I had just finished a 4-year enlistment in the Marine Corps and decided to try out for the team, of course Gary Ward was the HC. Tom had just moved from Arizona St to oSu if my memory serves me, and I remember him asking me where I played high school ball. He was taking notes on all the walk-ons.

Well I related my story to Tom that day at Westmoore, and he asked me which player was my son. I pointed him out and he complimented him on his hitting (he had hit a home run) but told me he needed "to put on an extra 25 pounds" and he could play at oSu.

My son was 6'0" and 160 pounds in high school. Anyone who remembers Matt in high school knows he was around 6'3" and 210 pounds. A big man. A man amongst boys in high school.

My son went on to play JUCO and excelled, and had an opportunity to play one year for Gary Ward at New Mexico St, but never weighed over 185 pounds in college.

I related this Tom Holliday story to my son a few years ago about how Tom had told me that he needed to put on another 25 pounds. My son told me, nonchalantly, that all the players kew that Matt was using steroids in high school.

I was shocked.

To this day I could not prove it, but rumor was rampant back in high school that Matt was on the juice.

Regardless, with the money in baseball, too many high school players are going to be tempted to use the juice to try and get drafted and cash in on the millions of dollars on the table. It is my understanding that steroids are extremely detrimental to one's health if abused or misused. This is the "crime" of steroid use in the majors. It trickles down to the high school level and can pose a trememdous health hazard to young players trying to achieve their dream.

Update: I just spoke to my son today and he said it wasn't just Matt Holliday, but Matt Roney (Edmond North) as well who had the rep for juicing in high school.