NCAA Hierarchy is Racist

[legelegel]

Racist NCAA Hierarchy is Making College Baseball Lilly-White

Have you noticed the decline in U.S. Black players in Major League Baseball? A little over 8% are playing today, a decline from almost 20 % a couple of decades ago. If you haven’t noticed this, surely you have noticed the small number of black college players today.

There are several reasons for this decline at the major league level, but they all center on the green stuff. No, not the grass on which they play. It’s all about the money. Some blame can be laid on the fact that the MLB draft does not apply to players outside the United States. This fact has caused teams to look more closely at the overseas markets, particularly the Caribbean countries, where scouting skill as to luck of the draw helps them discover, develop and sign players more economically. Most of the blame is on the elitists in the ivory towers and the NCAA hierarchy that are hired to do their dirty work.

The NCAA does not want the good black athlete to play a sport that does not generate money for them and their schools. Baseball is a non money making sport and that is why they only have 11.7 scholarships to share. Full scholarships are for football and basketball where the money is. Most black youth cannot afford to go to college on a partial scholarship and the NCAA knows it. Most blacks playing baseball are there on a football scholarship.

Attendance at college games is almost all white and college attendance is rising.

Someone needs to challenge the NCAA and their racist policies that are kidnapping the beautiful game of baseball. Soon we will be back to 1947.

I don’t see a quick reversal, because it took us 30 years to get where we are now.

If you look real close, you can see the ghost of Avery Brundage lurking there with the NCAA.

[Ostreak]

A: That article is a load of crap. Traditional black colleges cant even find black kids to play for them because there isn't any interest in the game.

B: what source did you copy that from?

[legelegel]

A: That article is a load of crap. Traditional black colleges cant even find black kids to play for them because there isn't any interest in the game.

B: what source did you copy that from?

These have been my feelings for sometime. My words were not copied.

You may think my thoughts are a load of crap, but I don't.

Black colleges are a very small percentage of baseball. Why would a black athlete want to go to black college anyway when he can go to any major university now? It's not that black universities can't find them. They can't compete for the better athletes that are there.

There are more college baseball players being drafted now than ever before, because they are better trained and have less risk. I wonder why there are fewer blacks playing high school baseball? Could it be that they see no reward in it at the college level?

OK, I will admit some of it's the organized white-privileged U.S. amateur leagues. But when I played amateur baseball blacks played the game. They don't do it now in the same numbers.

Division I football programs give out 85 scholarships to baseball's shared 11.7. If you are a young black athlete and you need help to go to school ... well do the math. What are the fathers, mothers and coaches of these athletes telling them? Which sport are these people telling them will be the best at the college level? It isn't baseball.

[CowboyJD]

A: That article is a load of crap. Traditional black colleges cant even find black kids to play for them because there isn't any interest in the game.

B: what source did you copy that from?

I'm with Ostreak.

To attribute the parcity of scholarships in NCAA baseball to racisim is pretty danged silly. If the sport doesn't generate cash for the schools they want to keep its costs to the school down too. That actually generates MORE schools with non-revenue generating sports programs.....and more opportunities for students black, white, yellow, green, purple, whatever. If you had a similar scholarship structure to football in baseball you'd have much fewer programs even participating.

Secondly, the NCAA isn't a farm system for the pros. That's not its stated mission or a concern. To suggest that NCAA doesn't fund baseball similarly to football with scholarships so that fewer athletes will have an opportunity to go pro in those sports ignores the fact that there actually is a substitute farm system for baseball players that is much more likely to accomplish a stated goal of professional playership.

The lower representation of black players in the MLB has nothing to do with the NCAA. It has to do with the draft rules regarding most south american players. Because Americans have to be drafted, the teams have no real interest in promoting and pursuing baseball academies like they have in South America. Those academies develop players directly and lock them into a team very early on.....sometimes as pre-teens. Conversely, in America the MLB teams have no say or involvement in development until they graduate from high school at the earliest.

Another element of the decrease in black players is a combination of fewer ballparks in urban areas that utilize all the space available with a highly concentrated population area. It is much easier and cheaper to have several basketball courts in a very small area than one large baseball park.....the basketball courts therefore service more customers in less space than a ballpark...certainly a concern in urban planning. Combine that with the fact that traditionally urban major league parks in the middle of the major metropolitan areas are expanding and moving to more isolated and/or upscale areas.

It has little to nothing to do with the NCAA. It has little to nothing to do with racism.

[legelegel]

If the NCAA is not racist (and I really don't believe they are), their policies indirectly affect a race and the participation of a people in a sport they once loved.

[OSUFan]

Racist NCAA Hierarchy is Making College Baseball Lilly-White

Have you noticed the decline in U.S. Black players in Major League Baseball? A little over 8% are playing today, a decline from almost 20 % a couple of decades ago. If you haven’t noticed this, surely you have noticed the small number of black college players today.

There are several reasons for this decline at the major league level, but they all center on the green stuff. No, not the grass on which they play. It’s all about the money. Some blame can be laid on the fact that the MLB draft does not apply to players outside the United States. This fact has caused teams to look more closely at the overseas markets, particularly the Caribbean countries, where scouting skill as to luck of the draw helps them discover, develop and sign players more economically. Most of the blame is on the elitists in the ivory towers and the NCAA hierarchy that are hired to do their dirty work.

The NCAA does not want the good black athlete to play a sport that does not generate money for them and their schools. Baseball is a non money making sport and that is why they only have 11.7 scholarships to share. Full scholarships are for football and basketball where the money is. Most black youth cannot afford to go to college on a partial scholarship and the NCAA knows it. Most blacks playing baseball are there on a football scholarship.

Attendance at college games is almost all white and college attendance is rising.

Someone needs to challenge the NCAA and their racist policies that are kidnapping the beautiful game of baseball. Soon we will be back to 1947.

I don’t see a quick reversal, because it took us 30 years to get where we are now.

If you look real close, you can see the ghost of Avery Brundage lurking there with the NCAA.

So if a black cannot afford to go to college on a partial baseball scholarship then how can he afford to go on a partial track scholarship? Maybe it has nothing to do with the money and has all to do with the athlete's interest in the sport.

[bleedorange]

The NCAA does not want the good black athlete to play a sport that does not generate money for them and their schools.

I'm sorry but this statement sounds borderline crackpot as do most of your other theories you listed above.

I don't think the answer is quite as complicated or as conspiratorial as you would have us believe.

I think the real answer is much more innocent and lies closer to CowboyJD's last paragraph. I've coached little league baseball for years in mostly white surburbia and I can tell you that the majority of the league is white, just like the surrounding population. I'm reasonably sure that this is because of the population base, NOT because of some evil old gray-haired NCAA'rs issuing racist edicts from behind closed doors.

[legelegel]

So if a black cannot afford to go to college on a partial baseball scholarship then how can he afford to go on a partial track scholarship? Maybe it has nothing to do with the money and has all to do with the athlete's interest in the sport.

When you can't catch a ball you only have one choice anyway, that is to run for the finish line as fast as your legs will carry you. :)

[bleedorange]

If the NCAA is not racist (and I really don't believe they are), their policies indirectly affect a race and the participation of a people in a sport they once loved.

They "once loved" it because the inner cities used to have sandlots on every corner and a kids game could be organized on a moments notice and WERE...a LOT. That doesn't happen now. They are basketball courts- that's it. They don't play baseball. This isn't that difficult. Either way, it seems vague enough that someone shouldn't be tossing around the "racist" label quite so easily.

[OSUFan]

When you can't catch a ball you only have one choice anyway, that is to run for the finish line as fast as your legs will carry you. :)

You sure soften up on issues as the thread continues. It sounded like in your first post you wanted to sue the NCAA. Now you are making fun of black athletes (if they can't catch, then they can just run). I guess you see how silly your attack on the NCAA was.

[legelegel]

You sure soften up on issues as the thread continues. It sounded like in your first post you wanted to sue the NCAA. Now you are making fun of black athletes (if they can't catch, then they can just run). I guess you see how silly your attack on the NCAA was.

I have known a lot of white guys that could run like the wind who couldn't catch or hit a ball to save their lives.

No, I'm not going to lighten up on the NCAA and those that continue it's servitude ways. They are certainly part of the problem why blacks aren't playing baseball.

The major problem is probably the lack of infrastructure in the game for black youngsters. It starts with baseball being a strictly inherited game.

Here's a quote from an article on this subject I just found.

Make no mistake, baseball is a strictly inherited game; it's not something you can pick up on the street like basketball or even football. It is a game of acquired, refined, specialized skills that are hardly translatable to any other sport. It is a game of inherited knowledge. Its Byzantine set of rules, skills, dimensions and culture are so esoteric and oftentimes so bizarre that they must be explained, passed down, by rote, statistic, history, usually from father to son, most often from an early age. This is where, normally, another statistic would be spouted, like "63 percent of young black males grow up in single-parent homes where the head of household is a woman who doesn't have time, inclination or knowledge to make baseball part of the kid's daily bill of fare ..." more (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/030715.html)

[CowboyJD]

If the NCAA is not racist (and I really don't believe they are), their policies indirectly affect a race and the participation of a people in a sport they once loved.

If you don't believe they really are racists, why did you title the thread and your post "NCAA Hierarchy is Racist"?

Just more of your attempts to be deliberately provocative and controversial?

Also, their policies don't particularly affect a race and the participation of a people in a sport they once loved. There are much greater and more important influences to the decrease in African American participation in Major League Baseball.

Besides, I think the apparent argument that African Americans are so weak willed or simpleminded that 11.whatever scholarships in baseball as opposed to more is what is driving the underrepresenation in MLB is somewhat racist and condescending itself.

[OSUFan]

I have known a lot of white guys that could run like the wind who couldn't catch or hit a ball to save their lives.

No, I'm not going to lighten up on the NCAA and those that continue it's servitude ways. They are certainly part of the problem why blacks aren't playing baseball.

The major problem is probably the lack of infrastructure in the game for black youngsters. It starts with baseball being a strictly inherited game.

Here's a quote from an article on this subject I just found.

But your quote proves, there is more to it than NCAA policies and procedures. It is about so many factors: money, home life and family, interests, etc. To make a thread saying the NCAA is racist... is way out of line and ridiculous! If you want to discuss social issues, we can move this to the non-sports board but to narrow it down to one organization who is just getting involved with an individual after that individual has had 18 or 19 years to succeed or fail at baseball is just not fair.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

hmmm... seems like first we'd need to define "black", since it appears there is a suggestion that black-carribian players are not black.

Are there really fewer black playes in MLB? If so, then it probably has more to do with MLB than anything else. Baseball use to be my favorite spectator sport as a kid growing up, but I haven't watched it in almost 20 years, because of the changes in baseball, not because of a lack of interest on my part.

I simply do not like what baseball has become.

As for your pontification... before the NCAA takes the rap, I think you'd have to actually demonstrate that there are in fact fewer "black" players in MLB, in the NCAA, in the Minors, in HS and beyond... I honestly can't say for a fact if it is true, or if it just may seem like it. Since the expansion I can't really tell much about anything with baseball; like if the balls are juiced or the pitching just to watered down (by comparison to the "olden days"; and accordingly, if the perception, of how many of which type of player, is also diluted).

JD covered most of the major points, but I would add that the good athletes probably don't find it all that appealing to travel around on a bus for 3 - 5 years with Baseball, when they can go directly to riches in either Basketball or Football. Even college baseball players that are drafted end up riding a bus in the minors for a few years.

I would expect that if in fact there has been a decline in blacks in baseball, that it probably directly parallels the rise and prosperity of the NBA and of College Basketball.

Baseball use to be populare because it didn't take much but a few cardboard bases, a bat and a ball and a couple of gloves... with the creation of basketball courts, that sport replaced baseball as the low cost of entry sport for kids. Now you didn't need anything except to show up and play.

In fact, I noticed this exact trend in Hockey, where in the past there were some black players, but now you simply can't find any, unless they're "canadian", which we apparently now know is not black.

I think the much broader question may be the decline of white players in basketball.

Why do you suppose there are fewer white NBA basketball players than their use to be, assuming that the same definitions hold that European players aren't white apparently for the same reasons that some Carribian players aren't black?

My first guess would be because the NCAA is likely holding down the white players by limiting the scholarships to only 13 (where as the women get 15), thus forcing college teams to only take the great black athletes that have flocked to basketball in droves from baseball, thus limiting the number of opportunities for white players.

It simply must be the NCAA's fault that there are fewer white NBA players.

[wickerbill]

Don't try to use logic to reason with legelegel. His arguments make no sense. It starts out as the NCAA as racist and the reason that blacks don't play baseball to how it's an inherited sport and it's not being passed down to blacks. So which is it? Do I need to be mad at the NCAA or at the millions of black fathers that aren't passing the game of baseball down to their sons?

[legelegel]

They "once loved" it because the inner cities used to have sandlots on every corner and a kids game could be organized on a moments notice and WERE...a LOT. That doesn't happen now. They are basketball courts- that's it. They don't play baseball. This isn't that difficult. Either way, it seems vague enough that someone shouldn't be tossing around the "racist" label quite so easily.

The game of baseball has had a long history of racism that still exists in part to this day and has prevailed openly much longer than football and basketball. It took 12 years to have a black player on every Major League Baseball team.

The NCAA knows that most black athletes can't afford to pay for part of their education. If they wanted more blacks tracked into baseball they would give that game more scholarships and make all them full rides.

[bleedorange]

The NCAA knows that most black athletes can't afford to pay for part of their education. If they wanted more blacks tracked into baseball they would give that game more scholarships and make all them full rides.

Is this the same crackpot conspiracy they use with tennis, golf, and equestrian?

[OSUFan]

The game of baseball has had a long history of racism that still exists in part to this day and has prevailed openly much longer than football and basketball. It took 12 years to have a black player on every Major League Baseball team.

The NCAA knows that most black athletes can't afford to pay for part of their education. If they wanted more blacks tracked into baseball they would give that game more scholarships and make all them full rides.

A real simple question legelegel: how many black baseball players have to find something else to do in college because they can't afford to play college baseball and go to school? It must be an extraordinary percent for you to go off like this against the NCAA.

[legelegel]

Don't try to use logic to reason with legelegel. His arguments make no sense. It starts out as the NCAA as racist and the reason that blacks don't play baseball to how it's an inherited sport and it's not being passed down to blacks. So which is it? Do I need to be mad at the NCAA or at the millions of black fathers that aren't passing the game of baseball down to their sons?

Both are at fault, but more of the latter.

I may not have any support from the members of this board as to the ulterior motives of the NCAA, but there is support for what I am saying in the black community.

[bleedorange]

I may not have any support from the members of this board as to the ulterior motives of the NCAA, but there is support for what I am saying in the black community.

Then they are equally wrong.

[legelegel]

Is this the same crackpot conspiracy they use with tennis, golf, and equestrian?

Have black athletes ever been that interested in those sports or had the resources to participate?

There aren't very many tennis courts that have free nets in place. Golf costs money every time you play. How many black families live on a farm or have the money to feed and board a horse. Those limited scholarships are no threat to the money makers of football and basketball, but baseball could be.

[snuffy]

Have black athletes ever been that interested in those sports or had the resources to participate?

There aren't very many tennis courts that have free nets in place. Golf costs money every time you play. How many black families live on a farm or have the money to feed and board a horse. Those limited scholarships are no threat to the money makers of football and basketball, but baseball could be.

So now it's baseball fault because you feel it is a threat to football and basketball? The reality of the situation is that life is not fair, nor is it written in our constitution that it should be fair, just that you can have a opportunity( at least in theory). But lets look at the reality of the situation, you are bored and looking for shit to stir up.

[HockleyPoke]

I know that it has been reported that the falling number of baseball players...at every level from little league to the pros...is due to most "inercity" kids seeing the huge money in pro basketball and think that is where they will get theirs. I won't bother about golf, tennis and equestrian. In Houston, there are programs in golf and tennis and a huge number of free tennis courts.

If you follow legaleagles line of thought and reasoning, then the NCAA and pro basketball are biased against whites. Both theories are a large load of crap.

[legelegel]

So now it's baseball fault because you feel it is a threat to football and basketball? The reality of the situation is that life is not fair, nor is it written in our constitution that it should be fair, just that you can have a opportunity( at least in theory). But lets look at the reality of the situation, you are bored and looking for shit to stir up.

Well, not really, but I will admit that I'm getting less surprised with how many are so enamored with the NCAA's control over amateur athletes.

Oh, I didn't know profanity was OK and certain pictures are not on this family board.

[HockleyPoke]

And the NCAA controls amateur athletes ...How????

What controls almost all athletics is God given talent, hard work and dedication most players become good enough for NCAA and Pro teams because a love of the game that causes them to enjoy working at getting better.

[legelegel]

I know that it has been reported that the falling number of baseball players...at every level from little league to the pros...is due to most "inercity" kids seeing the huge money in pro basketball and think that is where they will get theirs. I won't bother about golf, tennis and equestrian. In Houston, there are programs in golf and tennis and a huge number of free tennis courts.

If you follow legaleagles line of thought and reasoning, then the NCAA and pro basketball are biased against whites. Both theories are a large load of crap.

I wouldn't say that. The pros and college are always looking for that great white hope. The only place either seem to be able to get them is overseas. In the meantime they don't want their resources for their cash cows depleted.

The NBA is so fond of white players they had quotas for them.

[OKState918]

I may not have any support from the members of this board as to the ulterior motives of the NCAA, but there is support for what I am saying in the black community.

Interesting.

I wonder why I couldn't find much support for your argument within the black community when I was compiling a study on black participation in collegiate baseball over the duration of the past semester?

[HockleyPoke]

See above about such a

LOAD OF CRAP!!!!

[legelegel]

And the NCAA controls amateur athletes ...How????

What controls almost all athletics is God given talent, hard work and dedication most players become good enough for NCAA and Pro teams because a love of the game that causes them to enjoy working at getting better.

The NCAA controls everything a student/athlete does. The NCAA is the last bastion of amateurism forced on athletes that have reach majority. That power was given to the NCAA for a reason. The universities don't want to lose that control, because if they do they can no longer put the word student before the word athlete. If they are paid what they are really worth to their schools they would be pros. It is all about millions of dollars and the universities cannot afford to share it with the athletes that produce it. They will continue to be users and hypocrites to the very end.

[snuffy]

Well, not really, but I will admit that I'm getting less surprised with how many are so enamored with the NCAA's control over amateur athletes.

Oh, I didn't know profanity was OK and certain pictures are not on this family board.

Sorry about that:
EAR MUFFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Better now?

[legelegel]

Interesting.

I wonder why I couldn't find much support for your argument within the black community when I was compiling a study on black participation in collegiate baseball over the duration of the past semester?

Maybe it's just some of media that sees it and the black community you interviewed hasn't been reached with these thoughts.

Have you published your findings yet?

[HockleyPoke]

Why doesn't Pro Baseball draft more black players out of high school? There are about as many if not more players drafted then rather than after college??

[legelegel]

Sorry about that:
EAR MUFFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Better now?

It's not a problem.

There's no need for the ear muffs. I didn't hear you say it and I probably won't hear you say it when you are ready again.

Just trying to figure out the rules.

[OrangeAggie21]

What would you say if I started a thread complaining because 80% of all NCAA football and basketball players were black and not white? Is it okay to curse the NCAA for trying to keep white athletes out of the sport by offering the majority of the scholarships to black kids?

[wickerbill]

The NCAA controls everything a student/athlete does. The NCAA is the last bastion of amateurism forced on athletes that have reach majority. That power was given to the NCAA for a reason. The universities don't want to lose that control, because if they do they can no longer put the word student before the word athlete. If they are paid what they are really worth to their schools they would be pros. It is all about millions of dollars and the universities cannot afford to share it with the athletes that produce it. They will continue to be users and hypocrites to the very end.

If it was all about the money, then the only sports a school would have would be football and men's basketball. Maybe women's basketball at some of the other schools. Every other sport loses money so I guess if the NCAA wanted to do what's right for these athletes that are getting a free education, they would pay about 100 of them and tell the rest to figure out their own way to pay for college and to play intramurals if they like sports.

[JimBob]

Where's the "flush" handle when you really need it?:rollseyes:

[legelegel]

What would you say if I started a thread complaining because 80% of all NCAA football and basketball players were black and not white?

Go ahead you can certainly try it, but that 80% you are referring to are most certainly better athletes or they wouldn't be playing.


Is it okay to curse the NCAA for trying to keep white athletes out of the sport by offering the majority of the scholarships to black kids?


I assume you are referring to football and basketball scholarships. Why would you want to curse them when again the better athletes are being sought now for these two sports whether they are black, brown, yellow, red or white?

Again my point is that the NCAA wants the colleges to put the best product on the gridiron and the court, because that is were the money is.

The NCAA could care less what the product is in the other non revenue sports. If they did, baseball and the other non revenue producing sports would not be so limited in the number of scholarships. Programs would not have to split scholarships or be permitted to do it.

[legelegel]

If it was all about the money, then the only sports a school would have would be football and men's basketball. Maybe women's basketball at some of the other schools. Every other sport loses money so I guess if the NCAA wanted to do what's right for these athletes that are getting a free education, they would pay about 100 of them and tell the rest to figure out their own way to pay for college and to play intramurals if they like sports.

Are you telling me that the public would allow colleges to drop all or part of the non revenue sports. Ask the University of Oklahoma what happened when they tried to drop women's basketball when they weren't competitive at the time. When the high schools start dropping sports programs then you may see the colleges doing the same thing.

[OrangeCat]

I'm with Ostreak.

To attribute the parcity of scholarships in NCAA baseball to racisim is pretty danged silly.

paucity?

[OrangeAggie21]

Go ahead you can certainly try it, but that 80% you are referring to are most certainly better athletes or they wouldn't be playing.



I assume you are referring to football and basketball scholarships. Why would you want to curse them when again the better athletes are being sought now for these two sports whether they are black, brown, yellow, red or white?

Again my point is that the NCAA wants the colleges to put the best product on the gridiron and the court, because that is were the money is.

The NCAA could care less what the product is in the other non revenue sports. If they did, baseball and the other non revenue producing sports would not be so limited in the number of scholarships. Programs would not have to split scholarships or be permitted to do it.

So, you're saying that for most of the white kids that play college baseball, there's a more talented black kid sitting somewhere who wasn't given a chance?

If there were so many superior athletes that wanted to play college baseball, universities would find a way to get them on the team. I refuse to believe that there is some conspiracy to keep black kids from playing college baseball.

[CowboyJD]

The NCAA knows that most black athletes can't afford to pay for part of their education. If they wanted more blacks tracked into baseball they would give that game more scholarships and make all them full rides.

And if pigs flew, bacon would cost a helluva lot more.

It's just silly to attribute a purely financial decision to not expend larger amounts of money on a non-revenue generating sport as racial animus. It's BEYOND silly and approaches wildly idiotic.

[legelegel]

So, you're saying that for most of the white kids that play college baseball, there's a more talented black kid sitting somewhere who wasn't given a chance?

No, I'm saying there certainly could be many more if so many were not pigeon holed into the sports of football and basketball at an early age.


If there were so many superior athletes that wanted to play college baseball, universities would find a way to get them on the team. I refuse to believe that there is some conspiracy to keep black kids from playing college baseball.


There's just not that many of them out there, because they never played the game or they never played the game through high school.

Again there are two reasons, (a) the failure of the black community to provide an infrastructure and (b) the limitations placed on baseball scholarships. If this result is not intentional by the NCAA, the by-product they have created is certainly convenient for their continued stream of money.

[CowboyJD]

Again my point is that the NCAA wants the colleges to put the best product on the gridiron and the court, because that is were the money is.

The NCAA could care less what the product is in the other non revenue sports. If they did, baseball and the other non revenue producing sports would not be so limited in the number of scholarships. Programs would not have to split scholarships or be permitted to do it.

Funny, I thought your point was that the NCAA Hierarchy is Racist.

That notion and the one you're proposing now are WILDLY, RADICAL different.

[OrangeAggie21]

No, I'm saying there certainly could be many more if so many were not pigeon holed into the sports of football and basketball at an early age.



There's just not that many of them out there, because they never played the game or they never played the game through high school.

Again there are two reasons, (a) the failure of the black community to provide an infrastructure and (b) the limitations placed on baseball scholarships. If this result is not intentional by the NCAA, the by-product they have created is certainly convenient for their continued stream of money.

If they aren't playing the game in high school, how is that the NCAA's fault? Have you considered the fact that black kids nowadays simply aren't interested in baseball? Whose fault is that? The parents? High schools? How come black kids aren't participating as much in sports like hockey and lacross in the Northeast? How come more adolescent black kids aren't participating in band or vocal music? It seems to me that more than 80 percent of all rock musicians are white. Is that the NCAA's fault too?

Another fact that you're disregarding is the fact that pure athletes tend to excel at sports that rely more on speed and athleticism like football, basketball, and track. Baseball,on the other hand, doesn't require near as much athleticism to succeed at. Trust me, that's why I played that in high school instead of other sports.

I'm not really sure what you're motive is in this argument, but last time I checked, in college baseball the same rules apply regardless of skin color.

There may be plenty of black kids that don't play baseball because they can't afford to pay for college, but I guarantee you there's just as many white kids that are in the same boat.

[OrangeAggie21]

Funny, I thought your point was that the NCAA Hierarchy is Racist.

That notion and the one you're proposing now are WILDLY, RADICAL different.

That was exactly his point. If it was simply an issue of wanting scholarships divided more equally, race would be irrelevant.

[Ostreak]

Both are at fault, but more of the latter.

I may not have any support from the members of this board as to the ulterior motives of the NCAA, but there is support for what I am saying in the black community.

You mean the same black community that believes the CIA developed AIDS to destroy the black race or the CIA is the ones putting crack on the streets. Oh wait, the same ones who think that blacks and whites have different brains and thats why the disparity school success?

Dude, you are a complete crackpot.

[legelegel]

You mean the same black community that believes the CIA developed AIDS to destroy the black race or the CIA is the ones putting crack on the streets.

Nah, the black community has no reason to believe that whites in authority would do that to them. Ostreak, you must not know anything about the Tuskegee Syphilis Study that last 40 years and ended about 5 years prior to your birth.


Oh wait, the same ones who think that blacks and whites have different brains and thats why the disparity school success?


I wouldn't credit those thoughts to anyone in the black community. Maybe some white supremest group. Did you here that one at one of their meetings?

Dude, you are a complete crackpot.

Congratulations, young man.

You have now joined the group of elite personal name callers in this thread.

[Ostreak]

Actually Jeremiah right was the one mentioned the different brains, just 2 weeks ago at the NAACP meetings.

So now you are calling me a racist klan member? wow, just wow. I truely have no response to that.

[legelegel]

Actually Jeremiah right was the one mentioned the different brains, just 2 weeks ago at the NAACP meetings.

So now you are calling me a racist klan member? wow, just wow. I truely have no response to that.

Let's see you call me a "crackpot" and I called you nothing and you are the one that is upset. Is that right?

[wickerbill]

Are you telling me that the public would allow colleges to drop all or part of the non revenue sports. Ask the University of Oklahoma what happened when they tried to drop women's basketball when they weren't competitive at the time. When the high schools start dropping sports programs then you may see the colleges doing the same thing.

Can you not follow a logical argument? Every time someone calls you out, you change your original argument instead of addressing their point. YOU say it's all about the money. How can it be all about the money if the schools are LOSING money on baseball? If all the schools cared about was money, they wouldn't have so many non-revenue generating sports.

[CowboyJD]

Congratulations, young man.

You have now joined the group of elite personal name callers in this thread.

You mean names like "racist"? :vomit-smiley-001:

Pot....kettle......black.

Your act has quickly become incredibly old.

[Pokes4Life]

So your basis for racism is that due to limited scholarships and that blacks can't go to college without a ful scholarship (which is as racist a statement in this thread) that the NCAA is out to move blacks from baseball to football and basketball?

So how does that explain the huge rise of blacks in wrestling over the last few years? Wrestling only has 9.9 scholarships, but as an avid wrestling fan and having been to quite a number of NCAA Tourneys in the last few years, it doesn't quite explain the rise in black participation in the sport.

By your logic, these obviously very athletic black wrestlers should be playing football or basketball to get a full scholarship because they can't afford to go to school without that full ride....

But wait, they're wrestling and most are not getting a full scholarship to boot... hmmm.... guess that blows your entire theory out of the water.

[wickerbill]

You mean names like "racist"? :vomit-smiley-001:

Pot....kettle......black.

Your act has quickly become incredibly old.

It's the same act he's had as long as he's been here. I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him. He pushes people's buttons and then sits back and acts shocked that they would get annoyed by his persistent, illogical arguments.

[kaje]

It's the same act he's had as long as he's been here. I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him. He pushes people's buttons and then sits back and acts shocked that they would get annoyed by his persistent, illogical arguments.

Didn't you mean:

It's the same act he's had as long as he's been here. I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him. He pushes people's buttons and then sits back and acts shocked that they would get annoyed by his persistent, illogical arguments?

:D

[CowboyJD]

Didn't you mean:

It's the same act he's had as long as he's been here. I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him. He pushes people's buttons and then sits back and acts shocked that they would get annoyed by his persistent, illogical arguments?

:D

That's funny. I don't care who you are.

[wickerbill]

Didn't you mean:

It's the same act he's had as long as he's been here. I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him. He pushes people's buttons and then sits back and acts shocked that they would get annoyed by his persistent, illogical arguments?

:D


I wanted to do that, but actually have work to do. Thanks for taking the time to write my post how I wanted it to originally be! :D

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Nah, the black community has no reason to believe that whites in authority would do that to them. Ostreak, you must not know anything about the Tuskegee Syphilis Study that last 40 years and ended about 5 years prior to your birth.




Actually, the Tuskegee Study was the opposite of what is alleged above...

The rantings by the Rev. Wright, claim that the govt. is creating things to infect blacks with, while the Tuskegee was the opposite and involved not treating them for Syphilis... as opposed to injecting them with a virus, or getting them hooked on crack.

... which are completely opposite concepts, with Tuskegee being horrible, and the Rev. Wright being a kook, that doesn't even know the history.


I think if we looked far enough, we would eventually discover that it's the Rev. Wright's fault that some think that there are fewer blacks in MLB.

[Verb]

I can see now why orangepower got sick of him and banned him.

Kids, kids...

If we banned people for being annoying, there'd be nobody left here but Annie and me. ;)

Admit it, he has given you something to do to fill the time during the "dead zone" until football starts again!
:food-smiley-007:

[legelegel]

Actually, the Tuskegee Study was the opposite of what is alleged above...

The rantings by the Rev. Wright, claim that the govt. is creating things to infect blacks with, while the Tuskegee was the opposite and involved not treating them for Syphilis... as opposed to injecting them with a virus, or getting them hooked on crack.

... which are completely opposite concepts, with Tuskegee being horrible, and the Rev. Wright being a kook, that doesn't even know the history.


I think if we looked far enough, we would eventually discover that it's the Rev. Wright's fault that some think that there are fewer blacks in MLB.

:D Thanks for providing another sacrificial lamb for those with knives.

[OKState918]

Have you considered the fact that black kids nowadays simply aren't interested in baseball?

Ding ding ding. I think we have a winner.

Demographic studies are very clear. The simple truth is that black youths are not being drawn to the game of baseball, even in communities where baseball is offered alongside other sports.

If you're going to blame anybody, blame the NBA for surpassing the MLB's "cool points" in urban culture.

[kaje]

Why would youngsters that wear baggy pants and shorts down past their butt want to wear tight pants? ;)

[FWPoke]

Go to any urban or even suburban area in the country and see what the black youths of today are wearing. I'm willing to bet a whole US Greenback that the overwhelming majority will be wearing NBA jerseys rather than MLB jerseys. Face it, LeBron James is a heckuva lot cooler than Ken Griffey, Jr. And why spend all your time trying to learn baseball for a shot at the minors and maybe a major league contract when you are 25 when you can practice your jumpshot and be a multimillionaire at 20?

And the article that legel posted about baseball being too complicated with their rules compared to football and basketball is a joke. How hard is it to hit a ball and run around the bases compared to reading a zone blitz? More absurdity from the resident conspiracy theorist!

[legelegel]

I'm no longer surprised by those who are enamored with NCAA and their fiefdom in amateur sports, especially their rules in allowing only the feeding, housing and teaching of a trade to those in their serfdom in return for part time work that produces millions for their masters.

Racism has been inherent though not always open in college sports and the NCAA. In basketball I know it didn’t really start to change until 1961 when the gentlemen’s agreement was broken in their limiting the number of blacks on the court at one time. Racial prejudice is still there to some degree. It’s no longer institutionalized, but it’s there. In most cases it can no longer raise its ugly head and do harm.

[wickerbill]

You still haven't answered my question on how it's all about the money in baseball (the subject of this thread) when most, if not all, schools lose money on baseball. I'm not aware of a way to make "millions" if you're losing money.

[legelegel]

You still haven't answered my question on how it's all about the money in baseball (the subject of this thread) when most, if not all, schools lose money on baseball. I'm not aware of a way to make "millions" if you're losing money.

I said that the NCAA would protect the cash cows in football and basketball at any cost. Baseball doesn't have to lose money. The reason baseball is losing money is because colleges got caught up with trying to compete and keeping up with the Jones. Ask Gary Ward how college baseball could start paying for more of it's costs.

[CowboyJD]

I'm no longer surprised by those who are enamored with NCAA and their fiefdom in amateur sports, especially their rules in allowing only the feeding, housing and teaching of a trade to those in their serfdom in return for part time work that produces millions for their masters.

Racism has been inherent though not always open in college sports and the NCAA. In basketball I know it didn’t really start to change until 1961 when the gentlemen’s agreement was broken in their limiting the number of blacks on the court at one time. Racial prejudice is still there to some degree. It’s no longer institutionalized, but it’s there. In most cases it can no longer raise its ugly head and do harm.

In other words, the NCAA Hierarchy (which is nothing BUT an institution) ISN'T racist, but you're still going to argue.

Wow......just wow.

[CowboyJD]

I said that the NCAA would protect the cash cows in football and basketball at any cost. Baseball doesn't have to lose money. The reason baseball is losing money is because colleges got caught up with trying to compete and keeping up with the Jones. Ask Gary Ward how college baseball could start paying for more of it's costs.

And yet you continue to advocate that the decision NOT to increase COSTS surrounding baseball.....presently a non-money making sport.....is evidence of racial animus rather than a business decision.

[legelegel]

And yet you continue to advocate that the decision NOT to increase COSTS surrounding baseball.....presently a non-money making sport.....is evidence of racial animus rather than a business decision.

I believe I have been talking about the allocation human resources not the cost of them.

[Pokes4Life]

You still haven't answered my question on how it's all about the money in baseball (the subject of this thread) when most, if not all, schools lose money on baseball. I'm not aware of a way to make "millions" if you're losing money.

Don't fell bad, he hasn't responded to my comparison of Baseball and Wrestling in regards to number of scholarships and the fact that wrestling has seen an influx of black athletes which completely negates everything he's arguing.

[kaje]

This thread has dumbed me down so much I don't even know what is being argued anymore.

[CowboyJD]

I believe I have been talking about the allocation human resources not the cost of them.

Yeah, I know. You've been talking about the allocation of human resources WHILE IGNORING the cost of them. That's absolutely asinine to do. The decision of where and how to allocate resources NECESSARILY involves a discussion of the costs of such an allocation.

Furthermore, you haven't made any showing that the allocation of human resources is motivated by racial animus....and yet you continue to maintain that it was.

[wickerbill]

I said that the NCAA would protect the cash cows in football and basketball at any cost. Baseball doesn't have to lose money. The reason baseball is losing money is because colleges got caught up with trying to compete and keeping up with the Jones. Ask Gary Ward how college baseball could start paying for more of it's costs.

So they get rid of those "cash cows" and now how do they pay for all of the other sports that don't generate revenue? Do you really think they're not promoting baseball to prevent basketball and football from making less money even though the seasons don't really overlap much if at all? Does this stuff actually make sense to you before you type it out?

[OKState918]

Baseball doesn't have to lose money. The reason baseball is losing money is because colleges got caught up with trying to compete and keeping up with the Jones. Ask Gary Ward how college baseball could start paying for more of it's costs.

You do realize that fewer than 50 percent of all Div. I colleges turn a profit on their athletic departments as a whole, right?

[GoPokes83]

I blasted through much of this thread because I didn't want to watch JD eviscerate a bombastic argument. After awhile it's like watching Stephen Hawking trying to play Trivial Pursuit with the kids from the short bus.

OK Let's talk Baseball. Today kids start playing T-Ball at 5 or 6, then coach pitch, etc. The T-Ball players around here have All Stars after the regular season, and then there's the Select League after that! So at least down here in the warm climates baseball is practically a year round sport. It is expensive to the parents to have little 6 year old Javier in a tournament practically every weekend, and the costs escalate as you move on. It's the same way with Basketball and Football... Sad to say but the elite players in "Little League" sports almost have to choose one or two sports at an early age and concentrate on developing in them if you want to compete at the next level.

I think it's a Title IV issue that keeps baseball scholarships at a ridiculously low level, but the NCAA could care less who fills those slots. And that non-selective stance would exclude them from racism.

[FWPoke]

I'm no longer surprised by those who are enamored with NCAA and their fiefdom in amateur sports, especially their rules in allowing only the feeding, housing and teaching of a trade to those in their serfdom in return for part time work that produces millions for their masters.

Are you really arguing your point by pointing out that they get food, housing, and education basically free in exchange for a "part time job"? I think most people would take that deal in a heartbeat!! Doesn't exactly make the NCAA look evil!
:music-smiley-019:

[AnniePokely]

http://www.funny-games.biz/images/pictures/40-attention-red.jpg

[legelegel]

Are you really arguing your point by pointing out that they get food, housing, and education basically free in exchange for a "part time job"? I think most people would take that deal in a heartbeat!! Doesn't exactly make the NCAA look evil!
:music-smiley-019:

I'm sure a college athlete would accept more money if it was offered, but the current monopoly of college sports will not permit a free market for his services. The only choice is where they get to play. Once he selects his school even his freedom of choice is lost without a significant penalty.

Is it fair for a coach to move from one school to another without a penalty, and a player who is compensated far less loses a year of eligibility?

[legelegel]

I apologize Annie. I didn't see your red flag.

[snuffy]

I'm sure a college athlete would accept more money if it was offered, but the current monopoly of college sports will not permit a free market for his services. The only choice is where they get to play. Once he selects his school even his freedom of choice is lost without a significant penalty.

Is it fair for a coach to move from one school to another without a penalty, and a player who is compensated far less loses a year of eligibility?

But a free market does exist, where and what type of education you get. OF you want to study agriculture you can go to OSU or Texas A&M, journalism you can go to Missouri, if you want to be a butt plug your choices are OU and Texas, so there is a free market depending on what the players want to do beyond college. If you balance it against the coaches yes it is unfair, but not racist.

[legelegel]

But a free market does exist, where and what type of education you get. OF you want to study agriculture you can go to OSU or Texas A&M, journalism you can go to Missouri, if you want to be a butt plug your choices are OU and Texas, so there is a free market depending on what the players want to do beyond college. If you balance it against the coaches yes it is unfair, but not racist.

Annie, may I answer Snuffle, because this statement is mixing one issue into another and smelling both? :)

[CowboyJD]

I'm sure a college athlete would accept more money if it was offered, but the current monopoly of college sports will not permit a free market for his services.

Sure there is a free market for his services. He can go to an NAIA school. He can go pro immediately...even in basketball in the foreign markets. Hell, he can go to work at McDonald's if he wants. There are tons of other competitors out there that constitute the market for his services.

The NCAA makes him an offer. He either accepts it or declines it. Simple free market principles.

[legelegel]

Sure there is a free market for his services. He can go to an NAIA school. He can go pro immediately...even in basketball in the foreign markets. Hell, he can go to work at McDonald's if he wants. There are tons of other competitors out there that constitute the market for his services.

The NCAA makes him an offer. He either accepts it or declines it. Simple free market principles.

:rollseyes: JD, what's the name of Mickey D's roundball team? I also didn't know they were paying Euros for semi pro football players. So the option is to leave the county or flip hamburgers, is it. This is still another issue, Doctor.

Annie, when they stop I'll stop.

[legelegel]

Annie, would you please change the http://www.ostatesports.com/community/images/icons/icon4.gif to a http://www.ostatesports.com/community/images/icons/icon5.gif in the title of this thread.

I tried to do that, but the 5 min. timer got me. It may also make my detractors feel a little better about this issue if they see it as only a question.

[HockleyPoke]

Since your "detractors" seem to be everyone who has so little to do (me included) but read this drivel, how about giving it a rest and discussing sports and no the NCAA is not a sport.:violent-smiley-017:

[CowboyJD]

:rollseyes: JD, what's the name of Mickey D's roundball team? I also didn't know they were paying Euros for semi pro football players. So the option is to leave the county or flip hamburgers, is it. This is still another issue, Doctor.

Annie, when they stop I'll stop.

I guess I missed the part of economics that said you get to do what you want, when you want, how you want, for whatever pay you want, in a free labor market.

My bad, I guess.

[CowboyJD]

Annie, would you please change the http://www.ostatesports.com/community/images/icons/icon4.gif to a http://www.ostatesports.com/community/images/icons/icon5.gif in the title of this thread.

I tried to do that, but the 5 min. timer got me. It may also make my detractors feel a little better about this issue if they see it as only a question.

Except it WASN'T a question when you started.

It was a STATEMENT.

A statement designed to provoke to garner attention for yourself so that when others disagreed with you, you could play the "victim" card yet again.

Your act is incredibly old.

[legelegel]

Since your "detractors" seem to be everyone who has so little to do (me included) but read this drivel, how about giving it a rest and discussing sports and no the NCAA is not a sport.:violent-smiley-017:

I believe it has more to do with who had the thought than the thought itself, HP.

[wickerbill]

I believe it has more to do with who had the thought than the thought itself, HP.

Once again playing the victim card because you couldn't defend your position.

[CowboyJD]

I believe it has more to do with who had the thought than the thought itself, HP.

Don't flatter yourself.

It was the thought.....and it was asinine.

You wanted attention.

You got it.

Congratulations, martyr.

[legelegel]

Victim? I don't feel like a victim. Was that the intention?

http://www.ostatesports.com/community/image.php?u=40&dateline=1196696204 (http://www.ostatesports.com/community/member.php?u=40)

[CowboyJD]

Victim? I don't feel like a victim. Was that the intention?

http://www.ostatesports.com/community/image.php?u=40&dateline=1196696204 (http://www.ostatesports.com/community/member.php?u=40)

:music-smiley-019::music-smiley-019::music-smiley-019::music-smiley-019:

I guess it's time for yet another LE pity party.....always being persecuted by mean old JD. :rollseyes:

Again, don't flatter yourself martyr.

It was a stupid argument regardless of whom it came from.

[legelegel]

Vol. 16 No. 6 (June, 2006) pp.431-433

DISCRIMINATION BY DEFAULT: HOW RACISM BECOMES ROUTINE, by Lu-in Wang. New York and London: NYU Press, 2006. 200pp. Cloth $40.00/£27.95. ISBN: 0-8147-9379-7.

Reviewed by Thomas Shevory, Department of Politics, Ithaca College. Email: shevory [at] ithaca.edu.

The premise of Lu-in Wang’s DISCRIMINATION BY DEFAULT is that racism, and the discriminatory actions that flow from it, are not so much the result of intentional or conscious desires to harm as they are the consequence of deeply imbedded social contexts and stereotypes. These encourage or allow ubiquitous everyday discriminatory practices to disappear into invisible patterns of “normal” or “reasonable” conduct. Discrimination becomes the “default” mode of operation by ordinary people, and, perhaps more importantly from a legal perspective, by those with institutional power and authority, such as police officers, prosecutors, judges, and an array of other public officials. As a result of this, the effects of discrimination remain largely hidden from those engaged in discriminatory conduct, and discrimination is very difficult to challenge in a legal system in which “intent” is a primary factor for assigning legal responsibility or blame.

Wang begins the book with several hypothetical scenarios to show how discrimination by default might occur in various contexts. One involves a black couple who become angry and frustrated when a white couple is seated ahead of them while waiting for service at a restaurant. (It turned out that the white couple were “regular costumers.”) Another involves a woman working for a law firm who is placed on a “team,” the leader of which routinely belittles her contributions while also criticizing her for not being more assertive. A third involves an Asian student who is severely disciplined by a professor for not attending class because of a family crisis, while a white counterpart in the class is not, even though his excuse seems less compelling. Wang asserts that “It may be that in each of the three cases the decision maker treated the other person less favorably than he or she should have if that person were of a different race, gender, or ethnicity—but that in none of the three cases did the decision maker intend to do so. It may be, in other words, that each of them discriminated not by design, but by default” (p.4).

Wang then gives us an array of other instances of how defaults tend to serve the interests of institutional forces that are in place and that have power. Computer software defaults are an example, as is Microsoft’s domination of computer operating systems. As Wang states, “Many of us accept almost all of these settings, some because we have no preference otherwise, and some because we don’t realize we have a choice” (p.5). It is the lack of recognition or awareness of what this involves that makes it so powerful. As Wang notes, “In this situation, our failure to take action literally may be the result of our neglect or failure, but acceptance of the default seems for the most part to be neutral or [*432] objectionable. In some cases, the choices made by default may even seem desirable, to the extent that the default setting is viewed as the expected, the best, or the most popular setting” (p.5).

Much of Wang’s attention to legal matters is focused on the criminal justice system. Racial profiling and police abuses of minorities are fertile fields for discrimination by default, and ones in which it can have particularly pernicious consequences. The shooting of Amidou Diallo provides a horrifying example of what can flow from racist conduct that may not be entirely conscious. Following Malcolm Gladwell, Wang considers the officers’ conduct to be the result of mental processes “‘that fall into a kind of gray area, the middle ground between deliberate and accidental’” (p.10). In Diallo’s case, of course, the “default” that allowed him to be viewed as hostile and dangerous had everything to do with race. In American society, whiteness still serves as the default, and an infinite variety of patterns of conduct are defined by its imperatives. The dominance of whites is not unlike the dominance of Microsoft as the default of computer operating systems. “Whites enjoy a market and social environment characterized by networks that increase the initial advantage of being the accepted standard . . . The group’s dominance perpetuates itself ‘naturally,’ through seemingly neutral preferences for language, culture, stereotypes, and credentials that are associated with the standard and exclude those who are, or are perceived to be, incompatible” (pp.12-13). But, of course, the history of racism in the U.S. makes its unraveling much more intractable than eroding Microsoft’s dominance of certain software markets.

The argument that racism is institutionally imbedded and thus difficult to challenge at the level of intentionality is, of course, not entirely new. And the difficulty of proving intentions is endemic to virtually all aspects of the legal system. The virtue and contribution of Wang’s book is that it draws heavily and imaginatively upon numerous social psychological studies to demonstrate how social defaults work in complex and subtle ways to support multiple forms of institutional racism in U.S. society. In a chapter entitled, “Situational Racism,” Wang reveals the myriad ways in which ambiguity of social context can allow for discriminatory actions to be both exercised and disguised. As she puts it, “the myth that certain groups are especially prone to criminal or deviant behavior makes seemingly race-neutral reasons more believable and allows for the apparent separation of racial bias and reasonable suspicion or probable cause” (p.47). In a chapter, entitled “Self-Fulfilling Stereotypes,” she shows how attempts on the part of whites to be seen as non-racist can create a psychological burden that leads to resentment. The chapter on the health care system is especially important, because it deals with aspects of racism that are often ignored while also being at the core of racism’s corrosiveness. In other words, the book does an excellent job of revealing some of the underlying dynamics of racism in a social system that may no longer rely primarily upon graphic racist appeals or gross racist stereotypes to function as a system of power. [*433]

Finding mechanisms to combat racial defaults provides a distinct set of challenges, because in making legal claims “the discrimination in question might not meet the prevailing standard because the perpetrator might not have intended to discriminate or the challenged decision might appear to be justified on nondiscriminatory grounds” (p.135). I agree with Wang, then, that change must occur at the institutional level, and she provides desegregation of hospitals via the financial incentives provided by Medicare as an example of how this can occur (pp.140-141). Given her emphasis on institutional contexts, I was somewhat surprised that Wang did not include a discussion of affirmative action. In fact, this book is a very good argument in favor of affirmative action. In my own view, one of the best ways to undermine the defaults of discrimination in the U.S. would be to diversify an array of institutions: hospital bureaucracies, medical schools, public health systems, all levels of police departments, prosecutors’ offices, jury pools, law school faculties, and so on. I would suggest that discriminatory “defaults” are more difficult to disguise in institutions that practice affirmative action, and that affirmative action is itself a check against unconscious or semi-conscious forms of discrimination.

Wang’s thesis should not be taken as presuming that intentional acts of discrimination have disappeared from American life. Recently the National Fair Housing Alliance (2006) released a study showing that “racial steering” was the “norm” practiced by realtors in the U.S. In 87% of cases where NFHA testers were taken to see properties, steering occurred. Such practices foster broad patterns of segregated housing and all the discriminatory consequences that follow. While such actions may be a “default” in some respects, it is hard to imagine that they do not involve conscious deliberate acts of discrimination. Overt racism is still alive and well in this society.

Finally, it is worth noting that one of the many positive things that this book has to recommend for itself is a very clear writing style that makes complex legal and social science concepts accessible to a wide array of audiences. Given the capacities of some legal scholars to devolve into incomprehensibility for non-specialists, this is no small achievement. As a result, the book would be appropriate for a variety of teaching situations, including undergraduate courses on law related issues, as well as those in which the primary emphasis is not on law, but upon the politics of race. Given the difficulties that white undergraduate students often have of grasping the meanings of institutional racism, the book could serve an important purpose in this context.

http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/lpbr/subpages/reviews/wang0606.htm (http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/lpbr/subpages/reviews/wang0606.htm)

[Pokes4Life]

And the point of that article to this discussion is....?

[wickerbill]

And the point of that article to this discussion is....?

Find me a post of his in this thread that does seem to make sense and tie to the original point of the thread!!!

[CowboyJD]

And the point of that article to this discussion is....?

The point he's trying to make is that anybody that disagrees with him on the topic in question is complicit in institutionalized racism.

We disagree with him because we simply are ignorant and simply don't know any better, right? :vomit-smiley-001:

[legelegel]

The point he's trying to make is that anybody that disagrees with him on the topic in question is complicit in institutionalized racism.

We disagree with him because we simply are ignorant and simply don't know any better, right? :vomit-smiley-001:

Well, that's very interesting P.E. It now appears that you are the victim and the martyr that you never wanted to create. :)

Someone here fits the part of what one finds roaming our neighbors and playgrounds, except unlike most K.D. types he is dangerous, because he is intelligent and has followers of his every word.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7647/10550b6wg9.gif (http://imageshack.us/)

I wonder if he bites when frustrated, because he seems to fit that part too?

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5949/biteearhf2.png (http://imageshack.us/)

[CowboyJD]

Well, that's very interesting P.E. It now appears that you are the victim and the martyr that you never wanted to create. :)

Someone here fits the part of what one finds roaming our neighbors and playgrounds, except unlike most K.D. types he is dangerous, because he is intelligent and has followers of his every word.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7647/10550b6wg9.gif (http://imageshack.us/)

I wonder if he bites when frustrated, because he seems to fit that part too?

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5949/biteearhf2.png (http://imageshack.us/)

So much for not making personal attacks, eh LE?

Hey guys! Now I'm a cult leader and you guys are my mindless minions.

SWEET!

Ah yes, disagreeing with the brilliant :rollseyes: LE = being a bully.

There's not a soul on this board that didn't see the "I'm being bullied by mean old JD" gambit coming from a million miles away. You are becoming WAY too predictable.

You're an attention whore, plain and simple.

[SeaOfOrange]

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~burrows3/AttentionWhore2.jpg

[legelegel]

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~burrows3/AttentionWhore2.jpg

I see an echo here. Imitation is the purist form of flattery.

Is that cat named Tucker?

[SeaOfOrange]

http://www.nataliedee.com/090206/dont-look-at-me.jpg