Confused about the whole Collins Situation

[CoachOSU]

I guess I am a little confused about Gundy releasing Chris Collins from the football team after he pleaded guilty for his role in the rape of a girl on Prom 2004....

Ok, first Gundy and the university knew ahead of time while they were recruiting him that he would have to face this charge in court.... they knew he would have to deal with this situation 2 years ago when they were trying to bring him to OSU.

Now they kick him off the team for entering a guilty plea... even after they said he has been a "model" student-athlete before this happened and while he has been at OSU....

Now this doesn't make sense... you bring him to OSU, does what he is suppose to do as far as behaving and staying out of trouble just to kick him off the team for something they knew about 2 years in advance?

I am not saying I approve of what he did or am I saying that proven criminals should be role models... but why bring him here just to kick him off?

If he has been a model citizen before and every since this incident then he has done what has been asked of him... it just seems odd that they would know way in advance about this incident... bring him anyway just to kick him off when he goes to trial knowing he had to do this 2 years ago.

[Jonno]

Other than the fact that his lawyer's office flooded prompting a request to delay the sentencing, what new has happended in this case? Everything that can be said about this has been said on other boards and the predecessor to this board. Just accept that actions have consequences and because of that Chris' football playing days at OSU are over.

[BourbonPoke]

Do you think maybe the coaching staff was lied to about his involvement, thus why they went with their decision to bring him aboard based on that information or do you think it's based purely on program reputation and not putting us in a bad spotlight as a program?

[Verb]

I think they probably knew of his involvement. They may have been assured that the case would never get to court, or something like that.

I have mixed feelings about the whole deal too, Coach.

[Boss 24]

From everything that has been released, Collins won't serve a day in jail. I think this was just a weak case and that he wound up taking a blind plea which he and his lawyer knew would get a light sentence from the judge. The problem with my blind plea theory is that he still has to go before a jury for sentencing. Probably the judge gives them a sentencing rec and he goes on about his way.

[CoachOSU]

Other than the fact that his lawyer's office flooded prompting a request to delay the sentencing, what new has happended in this case? Everything that can be said about this has been said on other boards and the predecessor to this board. Just accept that actions have consequences and because of that Chris' football playing days at OSU are over.


Jonno-

I realize that this subject has been approach every way possible... the reason I bring it up is I tried to wait until all the facts were out and was waiting for the trial to begin before I made my comments.

I try to not jump the gun and make outlandish comments about something I do not know about (got me in some trouble in the pass by assuming things)

All I know is that : 1. He came here with the staff knowing fully that he had to face this in court eventually
2. If he was such a model student like that said before and after this then why not give him that second chance... how many athletes in OSU's past that were given second chances ....

Just seems odd that they act like they had no idea he was going to court and cut him when they knew about this 2 years ago and still brought him..

Either bring him... realize he made a mistake and keep close tabs on him ..make him prove it was a one time mistake.... or NOT BRING HIM AT ALL... they just handled it oddly..


KENTUCKYPOKE - you made a very good point... i had not totally thought of that... that makes some sense... but at the same time they let him go becuase of his involvement in this crime... which they knew about 2 years ago

[CowboyJD]

How about this?

They held to a presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Such guilt beyond a reasonable doubt was established when he plead guilty. He was let go at that point because it would be an incredibly bad idea to have a convicted felon for a sex related crime on your team.

[wickerbill]

From everything that has been released, Collins won't serve a day in jail. I think this was just a weak case and that he wound up taking a blind plea which he and his lawyer knew would get a light sentence from the judge. The problem with my blind plea theory is that he still has to go before a jury for sentencing. Probably the judge gives them a sentencing rec and he goes on about his way.

I thought I had read that a jury had already recommended a five year sentence to be served under probation and that the final sentencing is up to the judge.

[CowboyJD]

I thought I had read that a jury had already recommended a five year sentence to be served under probation and that the final sentencing is up to the judge.

That's correct with the additional caveat that I don't believe the judge can punish more severely than the jury recommendation, only less so.

Since they already recommended the statutory minimum and no jail time, sentencing is really just a formality that will determine when his five year probation term begins and ends and sets forth all its terms.

[Jonno]

Jonno-

I realize that this subject has been approach every way possible... the reason I bring it up is I tried to wait until all the facts were out and was waiting for the trial to begin before I made my comments.

I try to not jump the gun and make outlandish comments about something I do not know about (got me in some trouble in the pass by assuming things)

Coach, That is a reasonable way to conduct yourself. If you have the time, its always better to wait until all the facts are in.

All I know is that : 1. He came here with the staff knowing fully that he had to face this in court eventually.

As JD said above, I think the only way he ever stepped foot on campus was an assurance by Chris to the coaching staff that he was innocent.

2. If he was such a model student like that said before and after this then why not give him that second chance... how many athletes in OSU's past that were given second chances ....

A quilty plea has a way of changing things. Don't forget that OSU has said that they intend to honor Chris' scholarship. He still has his second chance... it just doesn't include playing football for OSU. He can still get an education in Stillwater. Now if he wants to play football while getting an education somewhere else that's his decision.

Just seems odd that they act like they had no idea he was going to court and cut him when they knew about this 2 years ago and still brought him..

Again, I can't fathom Chris ever stepping on campus unless he gave an assurance of innocence to the coaching staff. Now that he's pleaded guilty I think it is extremely generous of OSU to allow him to continue his studies in Stillwater.

Either bring him... realize he made a mistake and keep close tabs on him ..make him prove it was a one time mistake.... or NOT BRING HIM AT ALL... they just handled it oddly..


KENTUCKYPOKE - you made a very good point... i had not totally thought of that... that makes some sense... but at the same time they let him go becuase of his involvement in this crime... which they knew about 2 years ago

This whole situation has been very sad and there is no doubt that it has changed certain people's lives forever. It is my opinion that if Gundy knew two years ago how this would all play out that Collins would never have been offered in the first place.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

How about this?

They held to a presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Such guilt beyond a reasonable doubt was established when he plead guilty. He was let go at that point because it would be an incredibly bad idea to have a convicted felon for a sex related crime on your team.



Exactly.

Every criticism that I read about Gundy in the press being the heavy-handed sheriff in the past completely ignored the fact that other dismissals happened while the player was on campus when the infraction occurred.

Apples/oranges.

[Ostate]

How about this?

They held to a presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Such guilt beyond a reasonable doubt was established when he plead guilty. He was let go at that point because it would be an incredibly bad idea to have a convicted felon for a sex related crime on your team.


Here is my take on this and the thinking of our great leaders in the athletic department! innocence or guilt shouldn't have played a roll in this at all. The fact that this person could be a rapites so we will bring him in to win a few games and hope the hell he doesn't rape anyone while he is here and hope he isn't truly guilty.

This person should have never set a foot on our university! I feel they put our students in danger and the the athletic department is the blame for it, we should clean out the sticking dead fish our program.

rapites are skum and so are the ones that let him on our field.

[legelegel]

Gundy was apparently under the impression that there was no case or the case was very weak against Collins two years ago. It turns out the case was stronger than anyone at OSU had anticipated and the administration could stomach it no further.

[SFbruin]

As someone who isn't really familiar with the situation, except for the information recounted in this thread: I don't think Gundy and his coaching staff were out of line dismissing the player now.

It all hinges on what they were told. If the player swore to complete innocence, it's now a major trust issue. Even if he's been a model citizen since that time, keeping him in the program could create major division in the locker room. Consider the impact of a "What if that woman was my mother/sister/daughter?" line of thinking.

There are times when you draw a line, even if he's "a kid who does everything right." Honoring his scholarship is a gracious act, and I think it really shows that the program cares about the futuresl of these kids--much more than just their contributions to the W-column.

Whether he should've been brought to Stillwater at all is now a pressing question. How much trust is too much trust in circumstances like these? A very good point was raised about the risk to the student body. It seems to suggest that everyone thought he was innocent, and I really hope that's the case. The alternative is just too disgusting to stomach.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

innocence or guilt shouldn't have played a roll in this at all. The fact that this person could be a rapites so we will bring him in to win a few games and hope the hell he doesn't rape anyone while he is here and hope he isn't truly guilty.






I think you've pretty much eliminated yourself from future jury duty! Are the rest of you people taking notes here?

[CowboyJD]

Here is my take on this and the thinking of our great leaders in the athletic department! innocence or guilt shouldn't have played a roll in this at all. The fact that this person could be a rapites so we will bring him in to win a few games and hope the hell he doesn't rape anyone while he is here and hope he isn't truly guilty.

This person should have never set a foot on our university! I feel they put our students in danger and the the athletic department is the blame for it, we should clean out the sticking dead fish our program.

rapites are skum and so are the ones that let him on our field.

Mmmmmkay.

Feel better now? :rolleyes:

[bleedorange]

Here is my take on this and the thinking of our great leaders in the athletic department! innocence or guilt shouldn't have played a roll in this at all. The fact that this person could be a rapites so we will bring him in to win a few games and hope the hell he doesn't rape anyone while he is here and hope he isn't truly guilty.

This person should have never set a foot on our university! I feel they put our students in danger and the the athletic department is the blame for it, we should clean out the sticking dead fish our program.

rapites are skum and so are the ones that let him on our field.

Not a real stickler for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing are you? :rolleyes: