Nothing about this hire surprises me

[Cowboy76]

Nope, I had no idea who we might hire after Bill Self turned us down. Mike Holder was as shocked as the rest of us when he got the phone call from Bill last Thursday. There was no plan B. Oh, he had made a few inquiries and had a few names but he never expected to have to use them. He could have made the typical knee-jerk reaction that he HAD to hire the next biggest name out there regardless of the cost to the university. Fortunately, MH wasn't worried about saving face to the media, the fans, the Board of Regents, or even Boone Pickens. Even the slightest hint of an OSU inquiry to some of the big name coaches would have brought big salary boosts to their pay checks and only started a bidding war that would have ended up making OSU look bad.

Instead, in typical MH fashion, he set about to find a "fit" for OSU that would have the POTENTIAL to take us to the next level in basketball, get us back in the NCAA tourney, and hopefully back to the Final Four. He hired a coach that has a "Bill Self like" personality. A coach that likes to work, that can relate to players, fans, and the media and a coach that treats his players like his own son(much like Gundy). Mike did not have to break the bank to get this coach but will be more than willing to compensate him well enough that he will stay a long time if he performs up to expectations. And he did it in just six days.

Mike Holder did not give a rats ass if some fans or media "put him on notice". In vintage Mike Holder fashion, he was only concerned about getting the best coach that would benefit OSU's best interest in the long run. No hired gun, no big fanfare, no "win at any cost". He did not want a search committee because it would be too slow and cumbersome plus 5 years from now if it was the wrong decision, no one would remember anyone on that committee except Mike Holder. He relishes the pressure.

I like Mike. I have known him since he started playing golf at OSU. He hasn't changed much. What other AD's wear blue jeans on the sideline at a football game or sits with crowd with his arm around his wife at a BB game? He is aloof at times but that is primarily because he isn't about "putting on the dog" or sucking up to people. He is just Mike. Oh yeah, and he loves OSU.

[OrangeCat]

Too bad he just doens't like other OSU alums.....I guess my $1000s can't hold a candle.....................

[PlatteCoPoke]

Considering personality, family man, passion for basketball, desire to win... Ford seems like that perfect "fit" for OSU. Now all he's got to do is WIN and it will be a match made in heaven. Holder did a great job. I know after the Self ordeal we were all anxious to find out who was next.. but I'm glad Holder took his time to make the RIGHT decision.

[osupsycho]

Too bad he just doens't like other OSU alums.....I guess my $1000s can't hold a candle.....................

You know Cat I don't know what your grudge is with Holder but there is a famous quote that seems to fit in this situation: "You can't please all the people, all the time"

[Gman]

You know Cat I don't know what your grudge is with Holder but there is a famous quote that seems to fit in this situation: "You can't please all the people, all the time"

And you can't please some people any time, no matter what (not that this necessarily applies to Cat).

[GoPokesit]

Nice post 76. While I don't know Holder personally and have encountered him only in passing, I too like and admire him. It seems this process was done correctly and the result looks great. The Tulsa World has an article with some good insight in it today too.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

either that or "this" hire could be a knee jerk reaction, when he actually could have taken his time and actually interviewed a few people (like Larry Brown, for example)....

This guy "sounds" good, and evidently can coach a little, but he's never been on the "big stage" before... in the homes of top recruits competing against Coach K, Williams, Petrino, etc.).

I'm not saying that this is necessarialy a bad hire, nor am I saying that he might not work out as well as everyone is hoping... what I am suggesting is that there may have been even better candidates, but MH went with the first guy that looked like he could fit the bill (so to speak) instead of seriously looking at the entire pool of "candidates"; apparently because he didn't want to get "strike two" (or whatever he said).

He might even have made the same hire after actually interviewing other candidates, but we'll never know; and that's the point that is not reflected in your post.

[OSUFan]

Someone and it may not have been Bill Self himself had to have given Holder the impression or told him Bill Self would come to OSU. Holder seems too methodical to just assume Self would come for any amount of money and\or gifts. Or Self changed his mind but it was obvious Holder had no Plan B. I think he did good after being dissed by Self.

[Cowboy76]

either that or "this" hire could be a knee jerk reaction, when he actually could have taken his time and actually interviewed a few people (like Larry Brown, for example)....

This guy "sounds" good, and evidently can coach a little, but he's never been on the "big stage" before... in the homes of top recruits competing against Coach K, Williams, Petrino, etc.).

I'm not saying that this is necessarialy a bad hire, nor am I saying that he might not work out as well as everyone is hoping... what I am suggesting is that there may have been even better candidates, but MH went with the first guy that looked like he could fit the bill (so to speak) instead of seriously looking at the entire pool of "candidates"; apparently because he didn't want to get "strike two" (or whatever he said).

He might even have made the same hire after actually interviewing other candidates, but we'll never know; and that's the point that is not reflected in your post.

Damn, Cali, I don't know why we didn't hire you to be our AD. You seem to think you have a better idea on just about every subject. I was out of town a few days after your post under the "silence is deafening thread" so I did not respond to your questions on why you thought I was rude and condescending to you. Well ,here is why: I have seen your posts on several boards and you always seem to think that you have a better idea, or more knowledge, or some other piece of information that you think is more relevant. Message boards are mainly opinion boards so I have no qualms with that but you continually argued the Sean Sutton side when it was OBVIOUS you had no clue about what you were talking about. You kept on and on about people spreading "rumors" even though this information was coming from people LIVING in Stillwater and you were on the west coast with absolutely no inside information. How can you do that????? When I have a high school coach that idolizies the Sutton family sit in on a practice when Sean was stone drunk call me and ask me what is going on and what can be done and I talk to a local business owner that tells me how much liquor is being purchased, then I get pretty pissed that someone in California continues to argue that Sean needs another year and that this is just a grudge match for Holder. Mike Holder probably SAVED Sean's career and yet you were still argueing.

Now, after Holder did a fantastic job of going out and finding a dynamic young coach rather than breaking the bank chasing a Calipari or Floyd or worse yet, as you suggested, and over the hill, out of coaching dinosaur like Larry Brown you are still on here suggesting some type of knee jerk reaction by our AD. The only knee jerk I care to see is one that is aiming for your rear end. GET A CLUE!!! WE actually have an AD who has OSU's best interest at heart both from a competitive stand point and a financial stand point.

You can respond however you see fit but you will not see on more post on my part wasted on trying to reconcile any disagreement I might have with you. You remind me of a quinine, chronic pneumonia calf that I have spent a bunch of time and money on. In the last days, I don't even want to waste a bullet on him.

[Gman]

Hey, doc

There's a four-page thread on jimtraber.com with your name ("Cowboy 76") as the title. Haha...check it out.

[Cowboy76]

Thanks, Gman. I wish OSU would hire me for PR work.:food-smiley-004:

[legelegel]

You know Cat I don't know what your grudge is with Holder but there is a famous quote that seems to fit in this situation: "You can't please all the people, all the time"

I think Shelby Metcalf's quote is much more appropriate, "The only happy Aggie is an unhappy Aggie." He was talking about his Texas Aggies, but you can easily substitute the word Cowboy in two places. :pete:

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Damn, Cali, I don't know why we didn't hire you to be our AD. You seem to think you have a better idea on just about every subject. I was out of town a few days after your post under the "silence is deafening thread" so I did not respond to your questions on why you thought I was rude and condescending to you. Well ,here is why: I have seen your posts on several boards and you always seem to think that you have a better idea, or more knowledge, or some other piece of information that you think is more relevant. Message boards are mainly opinion boards so I have no qualms with that but you continually argued the Sean Sutton side when it was OBVIOUS you had no clue about what you were talking about. You kept on and on about people spreading "rumors" even though this information was coming from people LIVING in Stillwater and you were on the west coast with absolutely no inside information. How can you do that????? When I have a high school coach that idolizies the Sutton family sit in on a practice when Sean was stone drunk call me and ask me what is going on and what can be done and I talk to a local business owner that tells me how much liquor is being purchased, then I get pretty pissed that someone in California continues to argue that Sean needs another year and that this is just a grudge match for Holder. Mike Holder probably SAVED Sean's career and yet you were still argueing.

Now, after Holder did a fantastic job of going out and finding a dynamic young coach rather than breaking the bank chasing a Calipari or Floyd or worse yet, as you suggested, and over the hill, out of coaching dinosaur like Larry Brown you are still on here suggesting some type of knee jerk reaction by our AD. The only knee jerk I care to see is one that is aiming for your rear end. GET A CLUE!!! WE actually have an AD who has OSU's best interest at heart both from a competitive stand point and a financial stand point.

You can respond however you see fit but you will not see on more post on my part wasted on trying to reconcile any disagreement I might have with you. You remind me of a quinine, chronic pneumonia calf that I have spent a bunch of time and money on. In the last days, I don't even want to waste a bullet on him.

Hey 76, good to hear from you... nice apology too, I might add.

Maybe I should put words in your mouth for a change.... let's see... you're rude and condescending because YOU think that I think that I have good support for my position(s) even though I am simply offering alternative opinions and suggestions.

Yeah, I see your point... that is a great reason to be rude... I guess... :rollseyes:


Just a question for you though... aren't all "rumors" started locally by someone that thinks they know something or saw something; and isn't it a "rumor" because it is heresay and unsubstantiated? Isn't it possible that the "inside source" information that you're taling about is an observation... an allegation, that may be misconstrued? You weren't there, you're relying on somebody else's assessment of what they think they saw...

IF any of that were true, then it's like I said before he should have been suspended and sent to seek help, but Holder failed in employee management 101.

IF, like other have suggested, Holder didn't want to make it public and disgrace the Sutton family further, then Holder put the University at risk and failed in University management 101... and you failed at being a fan by publically stating exactly what supposedly Holder was trying to cover up. In this scenario the AD was taking the high-road for the sake of the coach, and you to the low-road by publicly outing him.

I'm having a hard time understanding how you think that you get a hall pass for calling people names...

I would prefer that we all just get along, with our varied perspectives, without the mudslinging. :food-smiley-004:

[Poke John I]

Almost everyone (+90%) seem happy with Travis Ford after seeing him and hearing his talk at the introduction. It is obvious that he "Aced" his interview with Holder. I was just as impressed with Holder as Ford. I thought Mike sounded very intelligent and professional unlike some of our past A.D.'s.

Boone had to nudge Holder to take the job but I'm glad he did.

[AnniePokely]

Surely you don't argue on every single thread on other boards as well, do you Cali? You're just a bundle of fun!

[OKPokeU]

There's one thing about Cali ... most all his messages are well thought-out with common sense. You may not like, or agree, with his view but he makes valid points. Let's face it, Holder comes off as an arrogant prick at times, and that turns off a lot of fans. If what 76 says about Sean and the booze are true, then Holder made the right decision to let him go. Whether TFord is a good hire remains to be seen. His body of work up to this point isn't terribly impressive to me. Sean's out and TFord is in ... let's see what he can do.

[okstatepike]

There's one thing about Cali ... most all his messages are well thought-out with common sense. You may not like, or agree, with his view but he makes valid points. Let's face it, Holder comes off as an arrogant prick at times, and that turns off a lot of fans. If what 76 says about Sean and the booze are true, then Holder made the right decision to let him go. Whether TFord is a good hire remains to be seen. His body of work up to this point isn't terribly impressive to me. Sean's out and TFord is in ... let's see what he can do.

One thing I have learned in my career... sometimes the arrogant d**** are the best ones to get stuff done. I'm generally OK with that...

[Verb]

There's one thing about Cali ... most all his messages are well thought-out with common sense. You may not like, or agree, with his view but he makes valid points.

I agree. I might not agree with all his thinking, but I think it's interesting and makes for a better board to see more than one side of an issue.

[AnniePokely]

Hey, doc

There's a four-page thread on jimtraber.com with your name ("Cowboy 76") as the title. Haha...check it out.

There's ten minutes of my life i'll never get back! Yuck. Not sure why i expected anything other than what i got.



:ousucksnana:

[MisterE-NYC]

Let's face it, Holder comes off as an arrogant prick at times, and that turns off a lot of fans.

So true. Sometimes he is a nice stand up guy, but he also has a major two face problem. Thats a bad thing IMO. I like someone that is consistent and trustworthy. He often tells people what they want to hear, to the extent of it comes off as lying. I had too many experiences with him telling me one thing and doing another, telling me one thing and telling someone else something different, telling me something then saying he never said it. That being said, he can get things done and work with some people.

Someone and it may not have been Bill Self himself had to have given Holder the impression or told him Bill Self would come to OSU. Holder seems too methodical to just assume Self would come for any amount of money andor gifts. Or Self changed his mind but it was obvious Holder had no Plan B. I think he did good after being dissed by Self.

I dont think that Self dissed holder. Actually i see it the other way around. I think coming back to the Alma Mater should be an honor and privilege. I do not think that trying to buy an alum to come back is kosher. It would insult me as a person and a coach. Money is good, but when it comes to some things, there is more then money. And, yes, holder may not have offered any money, but someone may have... or it could just be the speculation with money. And maybe self has other reasons for not wanting to come back. Maybe he didnt like how they treated Sean, maybe he doesnt like BP running everything. Maybe he is not a fan of the current administration. MAybe he cant be bought. Maybe he wants to wait till his son is grown up so he doesnt have to change schools.
And i think that while methodological, i also think he thought self would easily take the $ and come back to OSU. I dont think he thought there was any way that Self would refuse the money.

Too bad he just doens't like other OSU alums.....I guess my $1000s can't hold a candle.....................

And the students. The only students i know that like him are ones that know nothing about OSU athletics. The ones that just come to a few games a year, and thats it. The ones that know and care for OSU athletics dont like him. (just observation from past and current relations with current and past students; maybe it changed a lot this year)

Cali, i enjoy what you write. You think about like how i do. Able to see the picture differently, and to speak about what you see. I also see how you get some heat for that, but meh... it happens. This is just a board and it is almost all opinions. some people may have sources and what not, but almost everything is opinion (even from sources). This is not an Official OSU Athletic run site, so in my eyes, all are equal here. Just some people have different opinions.

And about Ford. He seems like a good guy, but i am reserving judgment until i see what he can do. I have no problems with him and wish him all the best. Its still the AD that i am frustrated with.

So just to draw a small comparison on why i cannot get totally behind ford yet, with out seeing him in action. Mr. Bush seemed like a good and smart guy, then got elected as president and look what he has done. So, he looked like a good guy and got America behind him, and he ended up leading us astray. If we all see Ford as infallible, then he could lead us in the wrong direction. We can support him, but it is not until he actually does his job that we can pass judgment. Character and personality are great things, but they are not what makes someone able to do their job. Mr. Bush would be a great person to go fishing with and have a beer with, but not to lead out country. I sure hope Ford has a great personality and character but can also lead OSU...And hopefully it would be fun to fish and get a beer with him too.

I hope he works out for the best. I hope MH put enough thought into it. I hope he made a good judgment. All of this being said, we wont know a thing until tip off next year.

[OKPokeU]

One thing I have learned in my career... sometimes the arrogant d**** are the best ones to get stuff done. I'm generally OK with that...

Short-term and in hard times I would agree with you. In the long-term those types have a hard time sustaining momentum and growing support. Luckily for Holder he has Boone's money behind him and teams' success will be more important than the AD in growing the fan support. In a more corporate setting, I think Holder would be in trouble long-term.

[okstatepike]

Great observation, and yes it does not work for everything and it is hard to sustain. Point being, sometimes people skills don't mean a whole lot when it comes to getting certain things done. I think history will look back more kindly on Mr. Holder than current opinions would indicate.

[Gman]

There's ten minutes of my life i'll never get back! Yuck. Not sure why i expected anything other than what i got.



:ousucksnana:

Haha. Yeah, it's always a bedlam flame-fest on that board.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Haha. Yeah, it's always a bedlam flame-fest on that board.

Yep... probably true... same with 43.

[GoPokesit]

I think many of you are confusing arrogance or being a dck with being somewhat introverted. My impression of Holder is that he is not arrogant, just that he is somewhat shy around new people (especially groups). I have the impression that he is uncomfortable trying to meet people, but is okay when someone else breaks the ice. With his role as AD, however, he obviously needs to be better at that - the recent mini-bio article in one of the newspapers talked about that, how Pickens was telling Holder how he needed to meet the people on campus and reach out to them. Again, I don't think he has the attitude of being better than others, it just isn't in his nature to be a social person. Combine that with having a driven personality, and it is easy to see how focus could be narrowed to the topic at hand and the pleasantries and politicking fall to the side.

[MarkOSU]

I think many of you are confusing arrogance or being a dck with being somewhat introverted. My impression of Holder is that he is not arrogant, just that he is somewhat shy around new people (especially groups). I have the impression that he is uncomfortable trying to meet people, but is okay when someone else breaks the ice. With his role as AD, however, he obviously needs to be better at that - the recent mini-bio article in one of the newspapers talked about that, how Pickens was telling Holder how he needed to meet the people on campus and reach out to them. Again, I don't think he has the attitude of being better than others, it just isn't in his nature to be a social person. Combine that with having a driven personality, and it is easy to see how focus could be narrowed to the topic at hand and the pleasantries and politicking fall to the side.

I agree, he is very responsive through email, which is a safe approach for someone who in introverted.

[OKPokeU]

He may seem introverted to some, but "cocky" and "arrogant" are the words I hear most often from OSU brethren. It's not surprising -- show me a successful coach that wasn't a bit cocky.

[CowboyOrangeFan]

I think many of you are confusing arrogance or being a dck with being somewhat introverted. My impression of Holder is that he is not arrogant, just that he is somewhat shy around new people (especially groups).

Based upon my conversations with people that work for him (or with him) on a regular basis, I would say he is definitely arrogant. Although not really in a bad way for the most part. I do have to say however there was one person I talked to that works directly for Holder that thought his arrogance attributed to the negative outcome of the Self situation. I don't really buy that though. That was an uphill battle, no matter what he (being Self) said to OSU leading up to his final decision.

[FloridaPoke]

He may seem introverted to some, but "cocky" and "arrogant" are the words I hear most often from OSU brethren. It's not surprising -- show me a successful coach that wasn't a bit cocky.


Coach, or leader, or CEO or entrepreneur........doesn't matter........ego and self assuredness is a very key ingredient.

And underlings bitching about it regardless of the environment is as normal and consistent as anything you will see in business.

[Lewis the Pike]

....
This guy "sounds" good, and evidently can coach a little, but he's never been on the "big stage" before... in the homes of top recruits competing against Coach K, Williams, Petrino, etc.).....

So he may recruit us a Darren McFadden or Felix Jones?? :D

[Lewis the Pike]

One thing I have learned in my career... sometimes the arrogant d**** are the best ones to get stuff done. I'm generally OK with that...


Well you always did well on managing Homecomings, Spring Sings, and Freshman Follies....I keed, I keed...:D:food-smiley-004: :D

[okstatepike]

Well you always did well on managing Homecomings, Spring Sings, and Freshman Follies....I keed, I keed...:D:food-smiley-004: :D

No kidding - it was a management style that served me well. :D

[PlatteCoPoke]

Whatever... If you were so good at managing homecoming, the roller coaster would have worked.

[Lewis the Pike]

Whatever... If you were so good at managing homecoming, the roller coaster would have worked.

Ohhh snap, is that a Castleberry?

[okstatepike]

Not my fault - I blame it on my underlings.

Back to the subject, I think FloridaPoke nailed it. You HAVE to be confident to lead any large organization successfully, and sometimes that can come off as a negative for some people.

Also, it is very easy to call someone arrogant when they make a decision that you disagree with and do not reconsider or back down. One man's decisiveness is very easily the next man's arrogance in the eye of the beholder.