Where to find the free anti virus software

[BourbonPoke]

OK, some time ago there was a discussion about the best free anti virus software many on here use. I did a search and came up with not much. Can someone point me in the right direction please? My wife's laptop is really running slow and I think its due to the free software that came with our broadband subscription. It is CA internet security. I really don't like it. Ever since I loaded it, her computer has just crawled. HELP People!!

BP

[PokesFanatic]

Avast AV (much better than AVG, IMO) here (http://www.avast.com/eng/download-avast-home.html).

Adaware Antispyware here (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad_aware_free.php).

Spyware Terminator here (http://www.spywareterminator.com/).

Ccleaner (not a security app per se, but very helpful nonetheless) here (http://www.ccleaner.com/download).

All free, all very useful.

[Gman]

I've found SpyBot to be very effective.

[jakeman]

Spyware Blaster

Ad-Aware

Spybot

all above are ad-spyware finders that will eliminate all the spy ware crap that really slow you down.

Crap Cleaner is also good. It has a "issues" tool that will clean out your registry. A clean registry seems to keep me moving pretty well.

And then AVG. I've not had any problems with it on an old desktop running w98 or a used laptop I just rebuilt for the kid. It seems to do a pretty good job of updating itself, and finding anything that he happens to pick up.

Just my 2 cents.

Just google all the above and you should go right to them.

[BourbonPoke]

Thanks all. I appreciate the help. I'll give these a try friday when I get back to Kentucky.

[Ivan]

I use AVG, IMO no other free software beats it. It's way better than Norton, I HATE norton.

[BigBadBen]

This is the best I have found.

www.freeav.com (http://www.freeav.com)


Its free and has autoupdates, almost daily. Ive had no problems whatsoever since Ive been using it.

[PokesFanatic]

AVG works fine, but operates on a sheduled scan basis. Avast has all the shield protection (realtime scanning for viruses) but doesn't do the scheduled virus scan thing. It only scans when you open it up and do a virus scan.

I run a good number of older computers and find that Avast is much easier on the resources. AVG is fine if your computer is on around the clock and never goes on standby, otherwise every time you wake the thing up it'll go into a virus scan (which is uneccesary if you have realtime protection).

An ideal arrangement would be to have Avast run all the time and use the ClamAV found in Spyware Terminator and have it run weekly.

I also have similar issues with Spybot. It is excellent, but is a dastardly resource hog. Only run it when you don't have anything else going on. Even on my wife's laptop (which is worlds more powerful than mine) Spybot is a resource black hole. I run it about 1/3 as often and only after I've found hits with Adaware and Spyware Terminator.

I completely agree with everyone on Norton AV. It has become a nuissance... consumate bloatware.

[wickerbill]

Norton's corporate AV software is great, but their home stuff is crap.

I don't run anything on my home computer. It's a mac. :)

now wait for Ivan to chime in on how much macs suck........ :)

[PokesFanatic]

Norton's corporate AV software is great, but their home stuff is crap.

I don't run anything on my home computer. It's a mac. :)

now wait for Ivan to chime in on how much macs suck........ :)

Macs don't suck, Apple does. Until they release their OS for use on PCs, distribute DRM free music on iTunes, and not tie thier iPhone service to AT&T, I will believe that.

They're more about telling you what's good for you than Microsoft is by a country mile.

[wickerbill]

Macs don't suck, Apple does. Until they release their OS for use on PCs, distribute DRM free music on iTunes, and not tie thier iPhone service to AT&T, I will believe that.

They're more about telling you what's good for you than Microsoft is by a country mile.

Apple hasn't done anything to force me to buy their music to put on my ipod. I usually buy from amazon if I buy online. I haven't had any restrictions put on my mac by them and I sure don't have to waste time and money running a bunch of spyware and antivirus software. I do enough of that crap up at work where I'm an IT manager. I can't remember the last time I couldn't do something I needed to at home on my mac where I had to use a windows PC.

[PokesFanatic]

I haven't spent a penny on security software for my PC nor have I spent much time and my OS installations last for years (usually only changing when I install a bigger hard drive).

People like to slam Windows for security, and three years ago I would have agreed. Lately, the spyware hits are so incidental that I don't even consider them. AV software is a bigger issue for PC users, but it's a reality for everyone--Mac, PC, and Linux users alike (ever hear of Hack a Day?).

Plus, there's nothing that Apple can do for me that I can't do for myself with a combo of Linux and Windows.

I'm not a Mac hater, but I'm also not much of a fan.

[PokesFanatic]

Macbook Air Hacked in Two Minutes

Security researchers from Independent Security Evaluators managed to hack a MacBook Air using a zero-day vulnerability in Apple's Safari 3.1 Web browser.

By Thomas Claburn
InformationWeek
March 28, 2008 02:00 PM

Mac OS X's reputation for security was tarnished Thursday when a team of researchers from Independent Security Evaluators (ISE) managed to hack a MacBook Air in two minutes using a zero-day vulnerability in Apple's Safari 3.1 Web browser.

The ISE security researchers -- Charlie Miller, Jake Honoroff, and Mark Daniel -- were participating in the "PWN to OWN" competition at the CanSecWest security conference, which began Wednesday in Vancouver, British Columbia.

"Pwn" is computer gaming slang for "own," as in conquer. The "p" typo serves to heighten the humiliation of defeat by emphasizing that the loss came at the hands of a youth who can't even spell or type correctly. The term has also come to be used in security circles.

Contest participants had their choice of trying to hack an Apple MacBook Air running OS X 10.5.2, a Sony Vaio VGN-TZ37CN running Ubuntu 7.10, or a Fujitsu U810 running Vista Ultimate SP1. During the first day, when attacks were limited to network attacks on the operating system, no one managed to compromise any of the systems.

That changed Thursday when attacks on default client-side applications -- Web browser, e-mail, IM -- were allowed. The ISE team won $10,000 from security firm TippingPoint Technologies for compromising the MacBook Air.

The undisclosed vulnerability in Safari 3.1 has been shown to Apple and no further information about it will be revealed until Apple can issue an update, TippingPoint said.

In a blog post on Friday, TippingPoint said, "[S]ince the Vista and Ubuntu laptops are still standing unscathed, we are now opening up the scope of the targets beyond just default installed applications on those laptops; any popular third-party application (as deemed 'popular' by the judges) can now be installed on the laptops for a prize of $5,000 upon a successful compromise."

Apple did not respond to a request for comment.


Original Article found HERE (http://www.informationweek.com/industries/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207000434)

[wickerbill]

Do you really want me to dig up all of the successful exploits on windows PC's in the wild? Do you really believe that for the average non-technical user a windows PC is just as safe as a mac? I never said that mac's were perfect, but show me a big outbreak of viruses or spyware on a mac, not one hack job on a web browser done at a contest. I've made thousands of dollars fixing windows PC's at people's houses that were totally messed up because of viruses and spyware. Never had a problem with my mac though. Then again, I haven't ever used AV software on my XP machine at home and haven't had any problems either, but I'm not the average user.

[PokesFanatic]

I guess my point is that if you were to swap the roles of macs and PCs in the world, that you would very likely have just as many problems with the macs. Your personal mac isn't a pain, but a bunch of networked PCs is. I have a feeling a bunch of macs networked with some equivalent of remote desktop would be just as big a target as a PC running windows, just like my personal PC hasn't had any major problems since it's behind a couple of firewalls and has a virus scanner running (and since I use Firefox).

I don't hate macs, but just get really sick of the typical mac snobbery where the 'in the know', chic mac owners look down their noses at pc users. No platform is immune from security breaches and it stands to reason that the popular platform will be targeted the most often.

[wickerbill]

I agree, but it doesn't change the facts that there are thousands of ways to get major problems with a windows PC and hardly any for a mac. Until that changes, having a mac is a much safer choice for the average PC user who really has no clue how to keep their computer properly protected from infections.

[PokesFanatic]

I can agree with you there, and if a mac is too expensive just use Ubuntu. It can even be installed from inside Windows now.

[SeaOfOrange]

When Mac users become more than 10% (or something thereof) of all computer users then they'll have problems. There's a reason nobody f's with Macs. It's like picking on the Window Lickers on the school bus. You just don't do it. It's, ummm, faux whatever.

[FalseGod]

Nice to see the old gaming term pwn finally making it's way to into mainstream terminology.


Oh, and on topic, try http://www.clamwin.com for free AV.

[Ivan]

Norton's corporate AV software is great, but their home stuff is crap.

I don't run anything on my home computer. It's a mac. :)

now wait for Ivan to chime in on how much macs suck........ :)


Yes macs are soooooooooo secure :food-smiley-007:


http://www.informationweek.com/software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207000434

MacBook Air Hacked In Two Minutes

Security researchers from Independent Security Evaluators managed to hack a MacBook Air using a zero-day vulnerability in Apple's Safari 3.1 Web browser.

By Thomas Claburn
InformationWeek
March 28, 2008 02:00 PM

Mac OS X's reputation for security was tarnished Thursday when a team of researchers from Independent Security Evaluators (ISE) managed to hack a MacBook Air in two minutes using a zero-day vulnerability in Apple's Safari 3.1 Web browser.

The ISE security researchers -- Charlie Miller, Jake Honoroff, and Mark Daniel -- were participating in the "PWN to OWN" competition at the CanSecWest security conference, which began Wednesday in Vancouver, British Columbia.

"Pwn" is computer gaming slang for "own," as in conquer. The "p" typo serves to heighten the humiliation of defeat by emphasizing that the loss came at the hands of a youth who can't even spell or type correctly. The term has also come to be used in security circles.

Contest participants had their choice of trying to hack an Apple MacBook Air running OS X 10.5.2, a Sony Vaio VGN-TZ37CN running Ubuntu 7.10, or a Fujitsu U810 running Vista Ultimate SP1. During the first day, when attacks were limited to network attacks on the operating system, no one managed to compromise any of the systems.

That changed Thursday when attacks on default client-side applications -- Web browser, e-mail, IM -- were allowed. The ISE team won $10,000 from security firm TippingPoint Technologies for compromising the MacBook Air.

The undisclosed vulnerability in Safari 3.1 has been shown to Apple and no further information about it will be revealed until Apple can issue an update, TippingPoint said.

In a blog post on Friday, TippingPoint said, "[S]ince the Vista and Ubuntu laptops are still standing unscathed, we are now opening up the scope of the targets beyond just default installed applications on those laptops; any popular third-party application (as deemed 'popular' by the judges) can now be installed on the laptops for a prize of $5,000 upon a successful compromise."

Apple did not respond to a request for comment.

[Ivan]

damn I was beat to the punch!

[wickerbill]

I have to laugh at people who defend windows of all things. :)

[gopokes82]

I don't dislike Apple or Mac for their product but I really dislike the way their business plan is set up. I like how they try and make it to where if you have a Mac, you are part of the "cool" crowd. I really just see a bunch of hippies or people trying to showcase how much money they have or how much they want you to think they have.

People can talk all day about how bad Microsoft is when it comes to security but nobody ever considers that once Mac has become a bigger target, bigger shots will be taken at them.

I subscribe to a lot of IT security feeds that I check often while at work to make sure nothing that we use becomes affected and I see Apple related software just as much as I do Microsoft. The only problem with Microsoft is they have about 80% or more of the market. Most corporations use Microsoft because it is easier to maintain and set up. Money and data is what people want to get. Mac doesn't have "data" except personal data but why waste your time on just a couple of people when you can get thousands sometimes millions of people at the same time?

Once Apple starts showing up on servers, if they ever do (which I doubt), then you'll start hearing more and more about the security leaks within a Mac. Hackers will start coming after Macs and will start writing virus programs that will affect the Macs.

Until then, don't download anything you don't know exactly what it is, don't use p2p sites, and don't install anything without checking it for viruses.

[Ivan]

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20060513.jpg

[SeaOfOrange]

Ivan, that's funny right there. I don't care who you are.

[wickerbill]

How many of you mac haters have actually spent much time using one lately? I didn't used to think much of apple until I got my mac. I picked up the mac mini to try something new a few years ago and grew to really like it. It wasn't very expensive at all.

The fact is that there aren't many apple pc's out there and there isn't very many vulnerabilities or exploits for it out in the wild like there are for windows machines. You guys can keep throwing out hypotheticals forever, but they don't mean crap unless they come true. I could crash this website by trying to post all of the security holes found for windows PC's and have see so many windows PC's absolutely obliterated because of spyware and viruses to know that for the AVERAGE person in today's PC world, a mac would be more secure for them.

I'm not a computer dimwit either. I am in charge of an IT department where we support 10 servers and over 150 PC's, all windows, except for our one UNIX server. We don't have very many problems with stuff because we run the appropriate AV software and keep the security settings locked down pretty tight. The average windows home user is logged on as an administrator and has no idea what they shouldn't be doing to avoid getting infected. Even if you hate apple, at least be glad they're around because their innovation has helped force MS to up their game, though I'm not sure I would hail vista as a great win in that area. There are definitely some nice features in it, though the execution wasn't great.

OK, you can now go back to your mindless apple bashing.

[BourbonPoke]

Loaded up AVG on the wife's laptop and it seems to be doing great. Thanks for all the suggestions. Didn't mean to start an Apple/Windows bash hour. Never really used a MAC so I have no opinion to offer to the debate. Carry on.

[jakeman]

Loaded up AVG on the wife's laptop and it seems to be doing great. Thanks for all the suggestions. Didn't mean to start an Apple/Windows bash hour. Never really used a MAC so I have no opinion to offer to the debate. Carry on.

Congrats, now go get CCleaner, and clean out that registry.

[BourbonPoke]

Congrats, now go get CCleaner, and clean out that registry.


Done

[Ivan]

Loaded up AVG on the wife's laptop and it seems to be doing great. Thanks for all the suggestions. Didn't mean to start an Apple/Windows bash hour. Never really used a MAC so I have no opinion to offer to the debate. Carry on.


Never be sorry to start a windows/mac war :food-smiley-004:

[FalseGod]

How many of you mac haters have actually spent much time using one lately? I didn't used to think much of apple until I got my mac. I picked up the mac mini to try something new a few years ago and grew to really like it. It wasn't very expensive at all.

The fact is that there aren't many apple pc's out there and there isn't very many vulnerabilities or exploits for it out in the wild like there are for windows machines. You guys can keep throwing out hypotheticals forever, but they don't mean crap unless they come true. I could crash this website by trying to post all of the security holes found for windows PC's and have see so many windows PC's absolutely obliterated because of spyware and viruses to know that for the AVERAGE person in today's PC world, a mac would be more secure for them.

I'm not a computer dimwit either. I am in charge of an IT department where we support 10 servers and over 150 PC's, all windows, except for our one UNIX server. We don't have very many problems with stuff because we run the appropriate AV software and keep the security settings locked down pretty tight. The average windows home user is logged on as an administrator and has no idea what they shouldn't be doing to avoid getting infected. Even if you hate apple, at least be glad they're around because their innovation has helped force MS to up their game, though I'm not sure I would hail vista as a great win in that area. There are definitely some nice features in it, though the execution wasn't great.

OK, you can now go back to your mindless apple bashing.

Now, this is only from data from 2001-2006, but it still illustrates what we are trying to get through to you.

http://blogs.technet.com/security/archive/2006/10/17/2006-january-through-september-vulnerability-trends.aspx

If you scroll to the bottom of the post, you will see the data broken out by OS. It does not take a very intuitive person to see what the trend here is. I also would not be surprised if the 07-08 data sees the trend staying the same.


Also, really in the big picture, your biggest vulnerabilities come from applications installed on the OS. The Mac was broken because of Opera for example. Also, where do you draw the line? Technically Opera is not a part of MacOS, but you will be hard pressed to find a Mac that doesn't use it or at least have it installed. Same goes for IE in Windows, or Firefox in all platforms.

I don't give a flip what people use, but this attitude that using a Mac makes someone safe is complete garbage. It is also fundamentally WRONG to be telling people this is the proper way to operate a computer. Mac, Linux and Windows users should all understand the importance of security. Teaching people to ignore it is not going to make it go away and will really come back to bite all those Mac users when they get hit with their first major trojan or virus attack. One thing is for sure, it will be ugly.

Everyone should practice good security habits. Mac, Linux and Windows, FreeBSD, UNIX, SCO, etc.

[wickerbill]

Now, this is only from data from 2001-2006, but it still illustrates what we are trying to get through to you.

http://blogs.technet.com/security/archive/2006/10/17/2006-january-through-september-vulnerability-trends.aspx

If you scroll to the bottom of the post, you will see the data broken out by OS. It does not take a very intuitive person to see what the trend here is. I also would not be surprised if the 07-08 data sees the trend staying the same.


Also, really in the big picture, your biggest vulnerabilities come from applications installed on the OS. The Mac was broken because of Opera for example. Also, where do you draw the line? Technically Opera is not a part of MacOS, but you will be hard pressed to find a Mac that doesn't use it or at least have it installed. Same goes for IE in Windows, or Firefox in all platforms.

I don't give a flip what people use, but this attitude that using a Mac makes someone safe is complete garbage. It is also fundamentally WRONG to be telling people this is the proper way to operate a computer. Mac, Linux and Windows users should all understand the importance of security. Teaching people to ignore it is not going to make it go away and will really come back to bite all those Mac users when they get hit with their first major trojan or virus attack. One thing is for sure, it will be ugly.

Everyone should practice good security habits. Mac, Linux and Windows, FreeBSD, UNIX, SCO, etc.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but there's not near the crap out there for the mac that is out there for windows. I'm pretty careful with what I put on my computer and I keep it updated. I've never used opera. I only use safari occasionally and mostly use firefox on my mac.

I think microsoft has been forced to get a lot better because windows was hit so hard over the last five years and apple hasn't focused on security quite as much because they haven't been forced to like microsoft was. I agree that a lot of it is because there are so many more windows PC's, but it doesn't change the fact that most people are trying to attack windows PC's.

[wickerbill]

Here's someone's opinion about that security conference last week where the mac was compromised before the vista machine.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/03/29/mac-shot-first-10-reasons-why-cansecwest-targets-apple/

I'm sure there's some bias there, but not any more than is already on this thread. :p

I just did a few quick google searches and didn't really find too many exploits being actively used on macs other than people being fooled into installing bad software. I'm not that stupid and there definitely isn't nearly as much of it floating around out there for macs as there is for windows machines. I'm not sure how you could make an OS not vulnerable to that other than issuing certificates to all the companies that make software for it. If apple did that, they would be berated for locking down their OS.

Irregardless of the security, macs are pretty nice machines to use, though I think XP is a pretty nice OS to use as well if you know what you're doing as far as security. I'm still not sold on Vista. I think a lot was changed to just to make a change, not to make an improvement. That and performance isn't too great. Apple really benefitted from starting over on mac os x while microsoft is stuck with all of their legacy code.

[Ivan]

I'm not sold on vista yet either. I have it on my laptop, and while it's not as bad as everyone says it is, it's not better than XP IMO.

And XP is supposed to get some of vista's security featuers in SP3... haven't done much research on SP3, guess I should since it's supposed to come out soon.

[FalseGod]

If you step away from the marketing crap that M$ spews about Vista and just evaluate for simply the OS it is a fine OS. It is certainly equal to XP in many things and does some better. The problem is people were expecting M$ to release something that was an improvement rather than a near equal.

I use both extensively here at work. I am literally using both of them right now. I have three monitors and two systems (Laptop and desktop) that I do my work on daily. I have Visio, Remedy and Visionapp (remote desktop for managing servers) running on the XP system and email, Firefox and Communicator going on the Vista system. Running a soft KVM to share the keyboard and mouse. Other than the obvious interface differences they're identical. I can swap the apps and do the exact same things on either one without any issues.

I also saw an article about some information that came out during a current lawsuit with M$ regarding issues in Vista. Allegedly 28.8 percent ( Reference link: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080325-vista-capable-lawsuit-paints-picture-of-buggy-nvidia-drivers.html) of the issues with Vista were Nvidia driver issues when they root caused them. Owning several Nvidia video cards and testing them with Vista early on in the RC stages I can definitely attest to the many issues that I encountered with their drivers, so this figure seems accurate to me. I'd say most users are not capable of discerning a driver issue from an OS issue though, so this adds to the perception that Vista itself is buggy.

I can also say that currently those issues are slim to none for me. Again it goes back to expectations versus reality. Since Vista didn't deliver any significant mind blowing features like there have been in past Windows upgrades, combined with the high bar set by XP already contributed greatly to many of the perception issues Vista currently has more than anything.

[PokesFanatic]

Apple really benefitted from starting over on mac os x while microsoft is stuck with all of their legacy code.

All Apple did was purchase a BSD distro and write custom APIs for it. That's one of the big reasons I'm not really impressed. Literally anyone can do with Linux or BSD what Mac has done if they use hardware that is well supported under the OS. Apple is a lot like Bose: light on content, heavy on hype.

As far as Microsoft, yes they've had issues adapting to legacy code but have done admirably well since XP SP2 considering that there is no root security level built into the core kernel. This will change with Windows 7 which is rumored to be in beta releases as early as '09--not long after XP reaches end of life status with MS. 7 will operate with root and user levels on a 'minwin' kernel that will more than likely be accessed via flash-ROM on newer machines reducing the RAM requirements. It will be super quick, highly customizable, very well supported, and will have security comparable to the various Unix's that are out there today.

[andyokstate]

"Since Vista didn't deliver any significant mind blowing features like there have been in past Windows upgrades..."

Come on now, Flip 3D is very cool. ;-)

[FalseGod]

"Since Vista didn't deliver any significant mind blowing features like there have been in past Windows upgrades..."

Come on now, Flip 3D is very cool. ;-)

Yea, blatantly copying look and feel for the GUI from Apple and open source projects is so cool.

[jakeman]

Teaching people to ignore it is not going to make it go away and will really come back to bite all those Mac users when they get hit with their first major trojan or virus attack. One thing is for sure, it will be ugly.

Everyone should practice good security habits. Mac, Linux and Windows, FreeBSD, UNIX, SCO, etc.

And this in a nut shell is what gets people into trouble. They don't know what the hell they are doing, and hackers and such are trolling around like Great White Sharks off a seal hatchery picking off unsuspecting targets.

I've seen it myself here at home. I never get infected, but I am constantly cleaning off my wife and kids computers. They aren't educated users. Something pops up, and they just click, click, click, click without reading a damn thing or paying any attention to what the hell they are doing. Its maddening.

On the other hand, I've got a company laptop, a really, really nice IBM thinkpad. It is a wonderful machine. I never use it. Ever. There are a few programs I have to occasionally use that are proprietary that are on there, but that's all I use if for. Why? Because our IT department thinks everyone is an idiot and they've got the damn think locked down so tight as to prevent it from being functional. I know why they do it, but I think education, with a moderate level of functionality would be a better way to go. Our IT department is so over the top as to not even really need to exist. They screw up every piece of technology they touch. They take perfectly good pieces of equipment and turn them into dust collecting paper weights.

Everyone on my sales team has their own laptop that they use. Nobody uses the company machine. We all have to carry a company Treo around, and we all have a personal cell phone that our manager pays for because the company phone is a piece of crap with all of the security software they have installed to make sure we don't use it to do something they don't approve of. It's a joke really. There is no telling the millions of $ we waste every year. If it isn't useful, it isn't necessary. If it doesn't help us do our job, and we are constantly screwing with it or sitting on the phone with IT for hours, it's costing us money. I'm not sure why they don't see that, but they don't.

[wickerbill]

All Apple did was purchase a BSD distro and write custom APIs for it. That's one of the big reasons I'm not really impressed. Literally anyone can do with Linux or BSD what Mac has done if they use hardware that is well supported under the OS. Apple is a lot like Bose: light on content, heavy on hype.

As far as Microsoft, yes they've had issues adapting to legacy code but have done admirably well since XP SP2 considering that there is no root security level built into the core kernel. This will change with Windows 7 which is rumored to be in beta releases as early as '09--not long after XP reaches end of life status with MS. 7 will operate with root and user levels on a 'minwin' kernel that will more than likely be accessed via flash-ROM on newer machines reducing the RAM requirements. It will be super quick, highly customizable, very well supported, and will have security comparable to the various Unix's that are out there today.

I would think starting with the bsd base that Apple did was a good thing, but anything to spin it into a negative. I'm still waiting to find a linux distro that's as easy to use and well-polished as mac os x, and you would think if it was that easy someone would have done it by now.

I'll believe it when I see it as far as the next version of windows. MS has long over-promised and under-delivered on their OS's. They are a slave to their popularity as far as being able to make big changes. I think their best shot at making a big change like that is to support some type of seamless virtualization to support older software that people need to be able to run that won't work on the new OS. I have no idea what their plan is though. No reason to start looking too much at features until about a year until the release after they've cut most of the major features out.

Jakeman, I agree that IT should be there to help the business, not to hinder them. It's a tight rope to walk with regard to dealing with ignorant users and being able to keep everything secure. Some people just aren't technical and no reasonable amount of training would help them. I deal with these people every day. They can probably learn it though they have decided they have no desire to learn it. It sounds like your IT people are catering just to them instead of recognizing the people who aren't total idiots.

[Ivan]

Yea I'd rather spend the time and money on comupter education than all the security stuff some companys use on their computers.

I think as the years go on it will get better because younger generations know much more about computers. But there will always be people who either just dont get it (that's perfectly fine) and others who just don't care.

[wickerbill]

Yea I'd rather spend the time and money on comupter education than all the security stuff some companys use on their computers.

I think as the years go on it will get better because younger generations know much more about computers. But there will always be people who either just dont get it (that's perfectly fine) and others who just don't care.

I'm with you. It seems so easy to me, but it's definitely not something that a lot of people get.

One of the easiest things people can do is not log onto their computer as an administrator unless they have a specific reason to. I've set up separate user accounts for a lot of people that I've done computer work for to use when they don't need administrator access. It's free and won't stop everything, but it does help.

[Ivan]

Jakeman, I agree that IT should be there to help the business, not to hinder them. It's a tight rope to walk with regard to dealing with ignorant users and being able to keep everything secure. Some people just aren't technical and no reasonable amount of training would help them. I deal with these people every day. They can probably learn it though they have decided they have no desire to learn it. It sounds like your IT people are catering just to them instead of recognizing the people who aren't total idiots.


I agree it's hard to draw the line. Do you lock down the people that don't want to learn, and not the others. Or do you just leave all the computers open and reimage the people who have problems once a month heh. Or lock them all done and hinder the employees work.

[PokesFanatic]

I would think starting with the bsd base that Apple did was a good thing, but anything to spin it into a negative. I'm still waiting to find a linux distro that's as easy to use and well-polished as mac os x, and you would think if it was that easy someone would have done it by now.

I didn't spin it to a negative, I just fail to be too impressed with basically doing the obvious.

As for the distro, when is the last time you looked at Ubuntu? It's about as good as I can imagine an underdog OS getting. It doesn't natively include all the eye candy and widgets that OS X does, but that's all icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. There will always be an abundance of third party add-ons that will spice up a boring distro.

[FloridaPoke]

Is it just me......or do you guys notice that all of these products recognize each other as problems? I have 4 different products that are all supposed to be specialized in an area, yet all of the exceptions they find are each other.....

I feel like I am back in 1977 at the Computer Center punching a stack of Cobol cards two feet thick and an Iranian Graduate Student saying over and over again as he chased me across the mainfraim floor yelling "do-loop, do-loop, do-loop.....you know no shit....do-loop, do-loop, you too stupid, why come for you do that?"....but saying it in a way that made me feel like maybe he was gay and hitting on me as my stack of cards flew in the air as other students laughed their asses off.

[and for all of you youngsters who missed programming Cobol on punch cards with Iranian f*&^%ng GA's, sorry for the divergent rant......I am 50....and I am a man......and it still pisses me off :) ]

[FalseGod]

And Hardy Heron from what I have seen will be even slicker.

Linux's biggest problem is driver support or lack thereof.

It is getting better though.

[Ivan]

And Hardy Heron from what I have seen will be even slicker.

Linux's biggest problem is driver support or lack thereof.

It is getting better though.


Yea until company's start making drivers for linux when they make them for windows it will always be in the back seat for most computer users.

[PokesFanatic]

Yea until company's start making drivers for linux when they make them for windows it will always be in the back seat for most computer users.

The last Ubuntu version I messed around with (Gutsy Gibbon), there was an application that searched your Windows directory for drivers and translated them for use with Ubuntu. It was freaking cool.

Besides that route (which admittedly isn't a sure-fire method at times) you just go to support pages for whatever Linux distro you're interested in and use hardware that is well supported. I honestly haven't had a bit of trouble loading Ubuntu (of a variety of versions) on any of several Dell laptops. No problem whatsoever, with the exception of the wifi card needing to use the above mentioned 'driver sniffing' software.

There's honestly nothing a little forum searching and dedication won't solve for you and you get a lot of free applications that will run and are maintained by very enthusiastic open source developers.