Sean Sutton, Cowboys Hoops & Rumors

[BigBadBen]

Folks,
Things have been said and a lot of rumors about the future of Sean and the hoops program are being bounced about.

Discuss it all you like, but we ask you to please show some decorum. Remember, Sean is one of our own. There is no need to bash him.

If he wasn’t as successful as you want, that’s fine, spill your guts, but personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Regardless of where Sean is coaching next year, I wish him success.

I am ready for the Hoops program to get back on track, who will be coaching that team is still yet to be determined.

Go Pokes.

[AnniePokely]

:action-smiley-033:

[PokesFanatic]

+1

[panhandler62]

I think the next season should be seen as and respected as the bell weather.

Sean has the team he picked and groomed. He got them up from despair to play at the level of the big dogs but was already too far behind the curve to get over the top this year.

If he can bring them out strong next year and run at a high level for the whole season; we'll have a championship caliber team. If he can't (barring genuine and credible unplannables) then it's time to ask if his tallents are properly matched as head coach.

[MemphisPoke]

BigBadBen:

Thank you for posting that. A voice of reason in a cloudy storm.

[BigBadBen]

No problem.

Everything is up for discussion. We just want to have some guidelines so we dont have to go on a post deleting/thread locking rampage like what happens on other boards.

Most folks here are level headed enough that we dont have to worry too much about that anyway.

[osupsycho]

Well the clock is ticking on the 48 hour rumor so we will just have to wait and see on that. There is a definite vibe out there that he will be fired and not for his win loss record either. I for one hope everything is hogwash and he is coach next year with the chance to prove himself at least one more time. Problem is that if Holder doesn't come out in support of Sean it is going to be hard to recruit this coming year...

[AlwaysOrange]

Maybe this has been discussed before and if so I apologize. But, if Sean is fired, who will replace him? Obviously not Self.....at least I would be very surprised if that was the case. Any other ideas.

I have mixed feelings on Sean. I think he deserves another year, but like most, I want to get back to the type of OSU basketball we're all used to.

[wickerbill]

I think he deserves one more year, but he really needs to get the team together next year. His first two plus years as head coach have not impressed me at all. Our offense this year was embarrassing. They made a nice run in February, but didn't do well at the end of the season and were a total joke the first three months of the season.

[Boss 24]

It's sad that you even have to post that. And since you only limited the personal attacks against Sean and not against the anti-Sean posters.....THEY SUCK!!;)

[BigBadBen]

It's sad that you even have to post that.

I probably didnt have to. We dont have the problem here that I see on other boards. I just wanted to head it off at the pass.


And since you only limited the personal attacks against Sean and not against the anti-Sean posters.....THEY SUCK!!;)


Not everyone who wants the hoops program to improve is Anti-Sean. I would say the vast majority really wanted Sean to succeed, and hate the fact that he didnt.

But one man is not above the program.

[AnniePokely]

The anti Sean posters aren't as vocal here as they are other places. They iz skeered. And they should be.


:angel:

I've only seen a few people who were truly "Anti Sean"

most wanted only the best for our coach, and our program, but see that things just aren't working out as well as we had all hoped.

[Lewis the Pike]

I've only seen a few people who were truly "Anti Sean"

most wanted only the best for our coach, and our program, but see that things just aren't working out as well as we had all hoped.

+1

[Boss 24]

I would say the vast majority really wanted Sean to succeed, and hate the fact that he didnt.

But one man is not above the program.


I wouldn't go that far, even for one of Lewis' +1 comments. He's only been on the job for 2 seasons and the only thing people are upset about is the lack of NCAA appearances. He has time, albeit maybe possibly 48 hrs, to go before anybody can say he didn't succeed.

[BigBadBen]

okay then, up to this point, it has not been successful.

semantics......

[AggieSpice]

i know this has been said, but almost all the criticisms of sean could be applied to gundy...yet we're begged by holder to give gundy 5 years. both were former assistants attached to winning programs who stumbled after taking over as head coach...yet for some reason sean is held to a much higher standard than gundy. i think it's complete B.S. that the A.D. hasn't been behind sean this season when our program and recruiting strategies really could have benefited from it. as a donor, the double standard disturbs me. :(

[osupride97]

i know this has been said, but almost all the criticisms of sean could be applied to gundy...yet we're begged by holder to give gundy 5 years. both were former assistants attached to winning programs who stumbled after taking over as head coach...yet for some reason sean is held to a much higher standard than gundy. i think it's complete B.S. that the A.D. hasn't been behind sean this season when our program and recruiting strategies really could have benefited from it. as a donor, the double standard disturbs me. :(

To quote a ridiculous trend from another board

+1

[AlwaysOrange]

And I believe I read in article about the Women's team that it said Holder stepped up to help keep the assistant that was offered another job from leaving. Grant it, I don't know exactly what this means, but my guess would be he got a raise.

If true, odd that you can show public support for an assistant but not a head coach.

[BigBadBen]

Without getting into a pissing contest, I have to completly disagree about the comparisson of the football & basketball programs.

The Final Four is equivellant to the BCS in football, agreed?
When was the last time we were in the Final Four? 2004. Before that it was 1995.

Okay, when was the last time we were in the BCS? NEVER.
Its been 20 years since we won 10 games.

So holding the programs to the same standard isnt feasible.


Sean was assistant coach the last time we were in the Final Four, and according to a lot of folks he was doing the "majority of the coaching" in the past several years. So, how can you say that he was basically head coach for 4 years, but then turn around an say he needs more time because 2 years isnt enough? To me thats a little hypocritical.


Granted Mike Gundy was on staff under Miles, but the difference was, he wasnt doing the majority of the coaching. The coaching staff was completely rebuilt, unlike in hoops. And, a lot of bad seeds were dismissed.


Im not giving Gundy a pass. 6-6 isnt going to cut it this year. If he does that, he will be gone, I have no doubt. But, the thing is, who will you get to come to OSU? We dont have a rich tradition in football so getting an Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll isnt going to happen. We have a better shot at getting a "name" coach in hoops.

And to clarify, Im not throwing Sean under the bus. If he gets another year, fine. If he is back, I hope we win every game he ever coaches. Im not changing my allegience to OSU becasue of who is or isnt coaching a team. I want to win regardless of who is at the helm. I would love to see Sean succeed, but I have a feeling its not going to happen here.


Also, show me a quote where Holder begged us to back Gundy? I would like to read that.

And when people start throwing out terms like "Boones Boy" & whatnot, it gets ridiculous. As fas as Im concerned, as much money as he has plunked down, he should have a say. If it were my money I would want my opinion to be heard.

If folks dont like that, Im sorrry, but I havent seen anyone else throwing that kind of money at OSU.

[Boss 24]

Watching a written pissing contest would be funny.

Your 5th paragraph was right on the dot.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

The Final Four is equivellant to the BCS in football, agreed?
When was the last time we were in the Final Four? 2004. Before that it was 1995.

Okay, when was the last time we were in the BCS? NEVER.
Its been 20 years since we won 10 games.

So holding the programs to the same standard isnt feasible.
.

I agree, the Final-four IS the equilivant of the BCS in football. We got there roughly every decade with one of the best coaches in the history of college basketball. It's not easy.

We haven't gotten to the BCS in football, but we got rid of those coaches because they weren't getting us closer (or they left on their own for greener paydays and easier recruiting).

I think that is a fair comparison of football and basketball greatness.

In additon... making a bowl game is EASIER than making the big dance. We are GUARENTEED to get 8 of our 12 teams into bowl games.. in basketball we typically get in LESS THAN HALF.

Making the NIT is the equilivant of getting to the Houston Bowl or the other 2nd lowest Big12 bowl...

Winning a decent bowl would be about the equilivant of advancing to the 2nd round of the NCAA.

I think those are pretty fair comparisons. (considering the differences of the sports and the rewards).

[pistolpete2002]

I completely agree with Ben. There is ABSOLUTELY NO comparison between football and basketball and to think so is ridiculous. Sean has been recruiting and practically coaching this team for years now. He got HIS pick of players and all the coaching staff was kept nearly the same if not identical. We were also right off a Final Four appearance when he took over.

Gundy had to rebuild his team and get the players he wants and get rid of players who he didn't want that were bad for the TEAM. When you rebuild in football you aren't replacing 6 or 7 guys, you have a roster of 55 (more or less). Gundy had to rebuild his coaching staff and his team while trying to stay competitive in a TOUGH Big12 conference, not to mention an improved and tougher non-conference schedule.

I and other people could go on and on. For people to say they're the same, please I really want to see your argument. If its legit, I'll give you credit for it. But in my mind....
Apples to Apples NO WAY!!!! No comparison.

[Verb]

But if Sean has been coaching and recruiting "for years now," then he gets credit for our Final Four team, too. Either he's been coaching for years, or he's a second year coach. One or the other.

[panhandler62]

Having already made a pro-Sean post --

I really just have two questions that I think need to be addressed:

When the Cowboys are in top form, is there any Big12 team that they can't play at least on par with?
What, barring injury, differentiates the top form periods from the mediocre periods?


:pete:

[cactusjack]

We've LOST in the first round of the NIT the past 3 years. We were in the final 4 just a few years ago, and now we get kicked by the Maris's of the world. I wanted Sean to succeed. I was a Sean supporter, and never a Bill Self man.

Sean was put in a bad situation by his father. Left with a team of thugs, and guys looking out for themselves only. He's got some talent now, but how much, nobody really knows....they've got along ways to go. I wish he had more time, but then again I don't.

Doesn't matter. He's out. Lets just hope the AD hits a mammouth homerun with his new hire.

OSU baskeball is a bigtime program. NO bigtime program goes 1 and out of the NIT 3 years in a row without reprocussions.

[snuffy]

Doesn't matter. He's out. Lets just hope the AD hits a mammoth home run with his new hire.


This is my biggest concern if Sean leaves or is fired or both parties agree that a change is needed. If we hire a new coach and he flops how much farther down will basketball go down? For this reason more than any other makes me believe that Sean should be given one more year.

[pistolpete2002]

But if Sean has been coaching and recruiting "for years now," then he gets credit for our Final Four team, too. Either he's been coaching for years, or he's a second year coach. One or the other.

You are completely right. However, Sean wasn't in COMPLETE control for the Final 4 like he is now. And with him in COMPLETE control as head coach he has gotten worse each year on paper and has lost in the first round of the NIT (Not Invited Tournament) for the past 3 years, that is unacceptable. That would be EXACTLY like football missing out on a bowl for 3 years in a row. If Gundy did that he would be gone in a heart beat, guaranteed, because Holder wants to WIN!!!!

Pure and simple, Holder wants to WIN and WILL win!!!!! He did it as a player AND a coach and I believe he will and IS winning as an AD. Our basketball program is NOT winning at the caliber we're used too and at a caliber it should be. He's cut throat and not afraid to make a BIG and crucial decision.

Again, I have ABSOLUTELY NO ill will against Sean, and I would love to have a Sutton be our coach for the next 25 years, if we can keep up the pace we had when Eddie was here, but we haven't been doing that and I'm afraid it's just not going to work out that way.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Marcus Dove + Byron Eaton + Kenny Cooper + Gerald Green + JamesOn Curry = Conference championship.

Damn. What could have been.

I'm just saying that some things are out of a coach's control.