Sittler stirs the pot.... [Archive]

Verb

07-06-2010, 11:59 AM

So what do y'all think of THIS little effort from Dave Sittler:

OSU's Gundy may be testing Pickens' faith

Pickens

By DAVE SITTLER World Sports Columnist
Published: 7/6/2010**2:21 AM
Last Modified: 7/6/2010**10:29 AM

BY HIS OWN admission, T. Boone Pickens is not a patient man when it comes to his beloved Oklahoma State Cowboys football team.

At 82, Pickens knows he's running out of time as well as patience. So that begs the question about the future of Pokes coach Mike Gundy.

When he pumped nearly $250 million into OSU's football program, Pickens' gift came with only two stipulations. He requested the upgraded facilities to be the best available, and the Pokes must win a Big 12 Conference championship before he heads to that big board room in the sky.

"We have to move fast, because I want to see it," Pickens told me last summer. "I don't want them plugging away and doing a good job, and I (die) and five years later they've got a championship team. I want it as soon as we can get it."

A reminder of Pickens' growing restlessness came last week in an article by veteran and highly respected Austin American-Statesman columnist Kirk Bohls.

Bohls included Gundy's situation in a column he called "a few semi-outrageous predictions for the 2010 season."

When it comes to Gundy's future, Bohls predicted: "Mike Gundy could be fired by December if manly Oklahoma State, which now has fewer weapons, continues to underachieve.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OSU/article.aspx?subjectid=93&articleid=20100706_202_B1_BYHISO890455&rss_lnk=93

PpeteFtSmth

07-06-2010, 01:33 PM

Sittler is def trying to stir something up in the middle of the dead time of summer. Gundy is not in any danger of losing his job, at least until C. Holg and Young have a chance to do their thing.

AggieSpice

07-06-2010, 03:06 PM

i can see a kernel of truth in this article. i wanted to storm the field and strangle gundy during the last two games, and my investment in oSu football is about
.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004158 th of Boone's.

jbug

07-06-2010, 04:18 PM

I honestly think there is a hint of truth here...if Coach G doesn't
'man' up and get the troops headed in the same direction in the big
games, T. Boone could blow his top!! And maybe with good cause??

osupride97

07-06-2010, 04:51 PM

I plead the 5th! :rolleyes:

Lewis the Pike

07-06-2010, 04:52 PM

I think there is incredible pressure on Gundy, especially long term.

Oklahoma State needs to show that we are worthy of admission to either Pac 16 or SEC 16, because this conference AIN'T stickin around.

I think he is up to the task. But we are on a timeclock to stay competitive.

orangeo

07-06-2010, 05:01 PM

This year could possibly be a little rocky, but even if it is I can't see them pulling the trigger on Gundy when the overall program has been moving in a positive direction. Recruiting has been steadily improving, and long term that is what will move the program forward. Replacing Gundy would probably just set recruiting back a few years.

rodbakeriii

07-06-2010, 10:48 PM

Yeah, I think this is a make or break season. That became evident when he said he wasn't hiring an offensive coordinator, then we get one a week later. His role is being dictated to him IMO.

FloridaPoke

07-07-2010, 01:52 AM

I am .9997 with the Universe, but I am rounding up because, Gosh Darnit, I deserve it.

For all of you that think this hasn't been hashed to the n'th degree internally, including Tulsa and OKC columnists, you are totally naive.

OSU simply doesn't have the talent to NOT have a rebuilding year every third year. OU and TX do not have that problem. We are getting better. We "might" slip up and surprise people and win a conference championship. But in a rebuilding year, I doubt it.

And those who think that someone who would invest hundreds of millions would be as naive to think otherwise, are even more naive.

Our recruiting the last 4 years have been the best four years contiguous EVER. Our coaching staff is as solid as its EVER been.

Let's play the season out. See who wins and loses. Then, let's take stock and see what we think would'a, should'a, could've.

Gundy may not make the cut, and I'm not a fan of his...........but in terms of building from NOTHING in terms of depth, numbers, quality and consistency to a bowl game every year...........he is already our greatest coach. Oh the blasphemy :)

MemphisPoke

07-07-2010, 07:08 AM

Well said Floridia.

I am not his biggest fan either, BUT the talent level has been going up. I just wish it would go up faster.

I am continously amazed when I click on national recruiting sites and see talent all over the country which is being offered by uO and Texas and even sometimes aTm and it appears that OSU is not in the mix, nor has offered these players. And I know the argument that Texas is a hot bed of talent......but Football is played in all 50 states. Over the past few years the number of players coming out of "other states" has increased, but just barely. We have the facilities (although we need that IPF built NOW !!!!!!!) but we don't have the reach and frequency on the elite players from other parts of the country. IF Gundy and company are such great recruiters why aren't we broadening our horizons? Or in other words, why are we recruiting a 2 or 3 star player from Texas when a 4 (or dare I say it) a 5 star player is playing in the next state over? (And before you start let me again say, as I have in the past, that "stars' are as worthless as tits on a boar hog in giving the true potential of a player, but they do sometimes, note I said sometimes, give a hint to the athletic ability and football common sense a HS player has currently and what he might develop into).

I believe with all my heart that OSU has a place among the elite in college football. We have a beautiful campus. Fantastic facilities (except for the non-existent IPF). A good education program. Etc, etc, etc. Really an atmosphere that some players and their parents would appreciate. So why aren't we attracting these players?

.

MajorMike

07-07-2010, 07:13 AM

I think he created the whole article so we would talk about it on message boards; pretty smart, eh?

osupsycho

07-07-2010, 07:34 AM

pistolpete2002

07-07-2010, 07:43 AM

I see no reason to get rid of Gundy unless there is a major coach that can be landed. While I don't think Gundy is the greatest coach (yet), to replace him with just any coach, will lose the momentum that we have built.

Well said and I agree with you except I don't think a "major coach" will EVER set roots in Stillwater and be here for the long haul, they'll always be looking for a better job. Then we're back to the same ol' same ol' with the coaching revolving door and like you said, that "will lose the momentum that we have built."

So really it doesn't matter if we have a major coach or just any coach, because unless they care deeply for the program and the school as a whole, like ALL OF US DO, they'll just be looking to get out of town as soon as they can.

I'm thinking we keep Gundy for several years and then when ZMFR gets out of the NFL in 10 years or so he can come back and be our HC!!!!! :D

CaliforniaCowboy

07-07-2010, 10:34 AM

I find it almost humorous that the assumption is that HCMG may not be the best HC in OSU history.

It's hard to say at this point since he had been learning HC101 on the job in pretty troubling waters, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he could surpass everybody on the OSU coaching history roster.

I was on the fence regarding his hire too, and also took the "show me" attitude; but it's time to start calling our unprecedented success what it actually is --- progress.

I would think that any of you who belive that contact and discussions with the new OC could take less than a week (roughly from when MG made the comment), and that we wouldn't do a national search but take the first guy that says yes, then you're just not being honest with yourselves.

Really? MG was told to hire an OC, and he did a complete 180 and hired one in only one week? Really? Honestly? Come on guys . . . let's at least be honest. You know as well as I do that MG has a tenuous relationship with the media, at best, and that he would not jepardize the career of his OC candidates by opening speculation in the Press. Come on guys. Really? You can't honestly be serious.

Poke John I

07-07-2010, 10:36 AM

CaliforniaCowboy

07-07-2010, 10:52 AM

We've had major coaches before that were capable of winning National Championships and did (JJ & LM). They both left us with a swinging door. I think Gundy is our best bet for the long run but recruiting better athletes is key. Some three stars will develop into NFL talant but they are few.

JJ left us with "lack of institutional control", and who's to say that Gundy couldn't win a MNC more quickly at LSU than LM did? Both excellent coaches, and MG has as good or better wining percentage than both.

I'm not sure that NFL talent is the measuring stick, since College Football is a much different beast (take a long look at the Heisman winners that flopped in the NFL).

If you were to look I'm certain you would find that 3-star (or 2 or 1 or no-star) talant make up more of the NFL rosters than do 4-5 star kids. We've done this analysis in the past; it is totally meaningless.

Often times playing as a team is much more positive for overall w/l record than having a team full of "me" players. That is what makes a good coach.

pistolpete2002

07-07-2010, 11:28 AM

When I'm watching NFL games and the players are introducing themselves and where they're from I usually say to myself, where the heck is that school??? I agree with CC, most NFL rosters have more 1,2,&3 star kids on them from no name schools than 4-5 star kids from big schools, I mean c'mon, look how many NFL flops UO has. The main reason behind that is they can't juice up as much in the NFL as they do in College.

Vulgar Display of Orange

07-07-2010, 12:20 PM

The question for Boone is how long do you stay at the craps table waiting for it to get hot once your realize that it's cold?

Poohness

07-07-2010, 12:33 PM

(And before you start let me again say, as I have in the past, that "stars' are as worthless as tits on a boar hog in giving the true potential of a player, ...).
.

I like to look at what TCU does with their recruiting. They don't always get the "stars" but they seem to do allright over the last few years.

AggieSpice

07-07-2010, 01:23 PM

orangeo

07-07-2010, 04:22 PM

I think one of the things that make the recruiting business a little suspect is the way those "stars" change depending on who lands the recruit. If that 4 star recruit lands at Texas, Fla, USC, etc he suddenly becomes a 5 star. If he lands at OSU, TCU, etc. he becomes a 3 star. This happens all the time. It also doesn't matter whether OSU's recruits come from just Texas, or all 50 states. All that matters is that they are good players.

superpoke

07-07-2010, 05:13 PM

I find it almost humorous that the assumption is that HCMG may not be the best HC in OSU history.

Why? It's true.

Pappy Waldorf is the best coach in OSU history, and it's not close. Three conference titles, a .735 winning percentage, and one of only two coaches in OSU history to never have a losing season while here (the other is Dave Smith, who only stayed one year).

Pappy went 11-3-4 against in-state teams, and all three losses were to Oklahoma City. He's the only OSU coach who never lost to OU. His lone conference loss was his first conference game.

Had he not agreed to play a team of ringers in Dallas for a much-needed check one year, he'd have had an undefeated season.

If we could have afforded to keep him, our football history might have been much different.

JimBob

07-07-2010, 08:45 PM

I plead the 5th! :rolleyes:

Husky is a weenie, husky is a weenie!!:p

Let me help you: my right tit will "reappear" before Gundy ever thinks about sniffing a conference championship.:officechair:

osupride97

07-08-2010, 07:25 AM

Husky is a weenie, husky is a weenie!!:p

Let me help you: my right tit will "reappear" before Gundy ever thinks about sniffing a conference championship.:officechair:

Not a weenie! Just tired of being beat up for speaking the truth. :officechair:

He just doesn't have what it takes, along with a killer instinct, and people outside of Stillwater know it. After a few more years of the same ole, same ole (losing to the big boys, playing injured players, losing easy bowl games!!!), maybe people will start waking up.

I actually have a little more faith with the new OC (for the 2-3 years we keep him), and if we can keep Bill Young, then we will continue to see great things with the defense. If hairboy can let go of the reins and let his Coordinator's do their jobs, we might have a chance??? :confused:

You better have my back when the Gumby lovers attack! :food-smiley-004:

osupsycho

07-08-2010, 07:58 AM

Not a weenie! Just tired of being beat up for speaking the truth. :officechair:

He just doesn't have what it takes, along with a killer instinct, and people outside of Stillwater know it. After a few more years of the same ole, same ole (losing to the big boys, playing injured players, losing easy bowl games!!!), maybe people will start waking up.

I actually have a little more faith with the new OC (for the 2-3 years we keep him), and if we can keep Bill Young, then we will continue to see great things with the defense. If hairboy can let go of the reins and let his Coordinator's do their jobs, we might have a chance??? :confused:

You better have my back when the Gumby lovers attack! :food-smiley-004:

You do realize that the same things were said about some other coaches for a long time such as Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden, and Joe Paterno. We should really look at the history of FSU/Bowden and PSU/Paterno as they are schools that had a long way to go but got there with patience and building momentum. I am not sure if Gundy can get to that level but he has made enough improvement to show that any change now would be premature.

osupride97

07-08-2010, 08:34 AM

You do realize that the same things were said about some other coaches for a long time such as Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden, and Joe Paterno. We should really look at the history of FSU/Bowden and PSU/Paterno as they are schools that had a long way to go but got there with patience and building momentum. I am not sure if Gundy can get to that level but he has made enough improvement to show that any change now would be premature.

You are comparing Gundy to some of the coaching greats?

Tell me what you see in Gundy that even comes close to those two coaches.

I'll give you he's a great recruiter. Or his coaching staff is, something.

Erick

07-08-2010, 09:07 AM

Why? It's true.

Pappy Waldorf is the best coach in OSU history, and it's not close. Three conference titles, a .735 winning percentage, and one of only two coaches in OSU history to never have a losing season while here (the other is Dave Smith, who only stayed one year).

Pappy went 11-3-4 against in-state teams, and all three losses were to Oklahoma City. He's the only OSU coach who never lost to OU. His lone conference loss was his first conference game.

Had he not agreed to play a team of ringers in Dallas for a much-needed check one year, he'd have had an undefeated season.

If we could have afforded to keep him, our football history might have been much different.

Okay, how about Gundy is the best coach we've had in Modern Football History? The game, the coaching, the athlete and the plays barely resemble what they did back then.

I am still not sure why we have so many fans that love to hate a guy that not only is one of our own, but has been successful while doing it the right way.

Sittler may like to stir the pot, but some like so stick their nose in it and inhale the crap. It's no wonder he keeps writing this junk.

pistolpete2002

07-08-2010, 09:30 AM

He just doesn't have what it takes, along with a killer instinct, and people outside of Stillwater know it. After a few more years of the same ole, same ole (losing to the big boys, playing injured players, losing easy bowl games!!!), maybe people will start waking up.

Sorry Tonni, but I can't disagree with you more here. OSU football is full of the same ol' same ol'. And the past 4 years has been some of the best in our history. If the same ol' same ol' means back to back 9 win seasons then I'll take back to back 9 win seasons and 4 bowls in a row over a bowl game every 5-10 years and 4-7 records every 4-5 years.

Sorry I have to use this example, but it's the best one I have, and please don't take it personal.... The difference between us is, I can admit when a coach does wrong (ala Gundy's last 2 football games last year were HORRIBLE, I can admit that. And I can admit Sean's mess he got into was horrible, you could never admit that and it was obvious). The thing is people make mistakes and they're not going to be perfect, NOBODY CAN and I'm not going to hold that against someone for the rest of their lives. Everyone knows you don't like Gundy for personal reasons, but to say he's bad for OSU and he needs to be fired is asinine. I don't hold the last 2 games against Gundy(well maybe a little at least until he redeems himself :D and I'm not going hold Sean's mess against him because he's human and he did great things for OSU, just like Gundy is doing great things for OSU too)!!!

On the other hand, I can also praise a coach when he's doing good things and making big strides (ala EVERYTHING EDDIE & Sean did for OSU and NOW everything Gundy is doing for OSU, it has been great and you just can't admit that for personal reasons). I think that's what really gets me are the people who can't admit or just won't realize that Gundy is doing great things with our football program for the longevity of our program and just because he had 2 of the most brain fart games to end the season people get a knee jerk reaction and want him fired and forget about where he is headed with this program and that another coach isn't going to make the situation better, it would only make it worse!!!!!! And we have proven success of a revolving door of coaches that only make the situation worse!!!!

osupride97

07-08-2010, 09:56 AM

I won't take it personal and I agree with what you are saying to some extent. And believe me, I am all about giving people second chances...and more. I know some very, very personal things that happened with Mike when he was at OSU and I have a hard time getting past his attitude about it then and his attitude now. I do not like his cockiness and I think he needs to be a bit more humble. I probably don't let myself get past all of that and don't really even give him a chance on the field. I can only name 1-2 games that I felt like he did a great job coaching - Missouri two years ago and Nebraska, last time we played in Lincoln. He never gave up in those games and kept the hammer down in the NU game. But, in most other big games......choke choke choke. Deer in headlights look and freaking sitting on the sidelines w/ a clipboard, staring into space. Sorry, the good coaches don't do stuff like that. He's got a LOT to learn.

As far as the records the past few years. Sure it beats 4,5,6 win seasons. However, without T Boone, no way he has that amount of success. And he needs to get down on his knees every day and thank T Boone. No way he is HC w/out experience and w/out T Boone. Les Miles could have done so much more with what Gundy has in front of him.

And to clear up something about Sean. I feel very, very duped by him. I was his biggest supporter and he disappointed me. He needs serious help and I hope he cleans up this time. But, it was all about attitude. He isn't the cocky, SOB that Mike is......that is the difference for me.

Anyway, thanks for not attacking. :food-smiley-004:

CaliforniaCowboy

07-08-2010, 11:28 AM

[QUOTE=CaliforniaCowboy;110992]I find it almost humorous that the assumption is that HCMG may not be the best HC in OSU history.

QUOTE]

the problem with that is that the bar is set very low to be the best coach in OSU history. what's oSu's best record ever, by far? 10 wins or something like that? to me, being the best coach in oSu history is like being the smartest kid with down's syndrome, to loosely and politically incorrectly quote the movie "waiting..." the good ones didn't stay long enough to rack up anything in the ou/florida/texass league and the bad ones went 0-10-01.

OSU's "best record ever" is UNDEFEATED, and a #4 National ranking, with a Heisman candidate.

I dunno about you, but that's fairly lofty. We probably should have played in the NC game that year, but during war time era, the folks wanted to see Army/Navy (both with Heisman candidates)

IMHO,that is a far cry from your down's syndrome comparison.

CaliforniaCowboy

07-08-2010, 11:37 AM

Why? It's true.

Pappy Waldorf is the best coach in OSU history, and it's not close. Three conference titles, a .735 winning percentage, and one of only two coaches in OSU history to never have a losing season while here (the other is Dave Smith, who only stayed one year).

Pappy went 11-3-4 against in-state teams, and all three losses were to Oklahoma City. He's the only OSU coach who never lost to OU. His lone conference loss was his first conference game.

Had he not agreed to play a team of ringers in Dallas for a much-needed check one year, he'd have had an undefeated season.

If we could have afforded to keep him, our football history might have been much different.

I understand our history, and I think you're mincing words and comparing much different era's... besides, like I said, Mike isn't done, so IMHO your comments are premature.

Taking nothing away from Pappy, he was clearly our best, but you're comparing his complete body of work against a partial body of work by Gundy. Like I said, a bit premature to claim that it won't be surpassed. You might be correct, but what if Gundy only ends up 2nd on the list? Isn't that the jist of the thread.

Pappy didn't have a "losing season" but his first season was 4-3-2, hardly something to write home about, and in this era, ties are no longer allowed.

Pappy had 1 or multiple ties in each season... hard to make a 1-to-1 comparison.

Pappy did have conference championshps (2 outright and one co-cham), in the Misssouri Valley Conference... wonder how that would compare to today's Big12?

superpoke

07-08-2010, 01:32 PM

I understand our history, and I think you're mincing words and comparing much different era's... besides, like I said, Mike isn't done, so IMHO your comments are premature.

Taking nothing away from Pappy, he was clearly our best, but you're comparing his complete body of work against a partial body of work by Gundy. Like I said, a bit premature to claim that it won't be surpassed. You might be correct, but what if Gundy only ends up 2nd on the list? Isn't that the jist of the thread.

Pappy didn't have a "losing season" but his first season was 4-3-2, hardly something to write home about, and in this era, ties are no longer allowed.

Pappy had 1 or multiple ties in each season... hard to make a 1-to-1 comparison.

Pappy did have conference championshps (2 outright and one co-cham), in the Misssouri Valley Conference... wonder how that would compare to today's Big12?

Right now though, it isn't premature. And Mike has a lot of catching up to do to change that situation.

Say worst-case, Pappy would have lost his seven ties. That's still an overall record of 34-17. He'd still have the best winning percentage of any coach here. To match his actual winning percentage of .735, Mike would have to win 39 of the next 40 games.

4-3-2 may not be anything to write home about, but it's better than 4-7, and roughly the same as 7-6.

I don't think it's disingenuous to compare the two - Pappy was here for five years, the same amount of time Gundy has been. Mike has coached in 12 more games than Pappy did.

Sure, the league might be different now than it was then, but great coaches are going to succeed regardless. Pappy proved that with what he did after he left.

pistolpete2002

07-08-2010, 01:43 PM

Right now though, it isn't premature. And Mike has a lot of catching up to do to change that situation.

Say worst-case, Pappy would have lost his seven ties. That's still an overall record of 34-17. He'd still have the best winning percentage of any coach here. To match his actual winning percentage of .735, Mike would have to win 39 of the next 40 games.

4-3-2 may not be anything to write home about, but it's better than 4-7, and roughly the same as 7-6.

I don't think it's disingenuous to compare the two - Pappy was here for five years, the same amount of time Gundy has been. Mike has coached in 12 more games than Pappy did.

Sure, the league might be different now than it was then, but great coaches are going to succeed regardless. Pappy proved that with what he did after he left.

I can't really comment on Pappy, because I don't really know that much about him. However, I do feel that Gundy has done a great job with what he's had and the biggest blunder Gundy's ever had IMO were the last two games of last year. Not many people have beaten OU&UT the last 5 years, especially at their home stadium. I haven't gone back and looked at their record, but I'm sure it's excellent. So I really doubt many a coach could be very much better. Yeah maybe 1 or 2 games, but even Les couldn't beat UT and yeah he beat OU twice, but the 16-13 game was more luck than anything. The coach didn't have anything to do with those long field goals that LP hit and he sure didn't have anything to do with JF hitting RW in the endzone or TD making the amazing diving catch to set up the play in the endzone. That was pure luck.

JimBob

07-09-2010, 09:24 PM

the biggest blunder Gundy's ever had IMO were the last two games of last year

Self-inflicted and inexcusable.

Boone is 80+ and wants to win a championship. Everyone can praise Gundy for recruiting, progress, etc. but nothing indicates he's capable of delivering what Boone wants.

andyokstate

07-10-2010, 08:06 AM

...but nothing indicates he's capable of delivering what Boone wants.

A sausage-green chili pizza with a side of fried mushrooms from the Hideaway?

CoachOSU

07-10-2010, 01:51 PM

Ok..I am going to pull a Boone Pickens too then...

Dear IRS,

I am going to send you all this money... but I want two things to happen first after I send it... 1. I want you not to bother me anymore until I die.. no more taxes and no more hassling me
2. I want to recieve monthly updates monthly on where my tax money is being used.. I want to know how it is being used for the "betterment" of the country...

Doesn't work that way.. you can't make a donation "out of the love of your heart" and demand a Big 12 championship... just doesn't go like that!! :officechair:

stu42

07-12-2010, 07:06 AM

As usual D. Shittler is full of ... himself; but i don't mind stirring the pot, or stoking the fire - nothing like a little motivational BS to set the bar a little higher.

FloridaPoke

07-13-2010, 10:08 AM

Let's all be honest here. OSU history, Pappy Waldorf included, is nothing to write home about. In the context of the Big 12, where we must recruit in Texas against Tx, aTm, Tech and OU, given how empty the cubbord was when Gundy took over (after necessary house cleaning from gang members), this staff has done an incredible job. Not perfect. Not there yet. But incredible under the circumstances with hindsight being 20/20. Anybody that doesn't get that simply has an axe to grind for an unrelated reason....or isn't being objective for some reason. We have a long way to go to beat OU and TX in the same year, which seems to be the mantra for some here. I'd like that too, but they have way better talent than we do, hands down. Impossible to know, but I'd wager a pretty penny that this STAFF would kick regular ass with Tx and OU's talent. They will probably do it in the future without it, but not every year. Just who we are and where we are in the recruiting food chain. Pat Jones followed up 10 win seasons with a 10 loss one. Pappy Waldor coached during a World War when the power schools were depleted. Jimmy Johnson and Les Miles couldn't WAIT to exit Stilly. Any other great coach wouldn't let the door hit them in the ass for a better offer just to get away from the OU/TX juggernaut. We have to have somebody who will sit in the fox hole and fight like hell when we are outnumbered and getting shelled instead of run for cover. So for all the "Gundy isn't the right guy and will never get it done crowd", please show us your wisdom and tell us what (or who) you would replace him with. I'll be patiently waiting. I'm NOT a big Gundy fan. But I do bleed Orange through and through and would be scared to death to go back to the revolving door we have experienced in the past.

pistolpete2002

07-13-2010, 10:27 AM

let's all be honest here. Osu history, pappy waldorf included, is nothing to write home about. In the context of the big 12, where we must recruit in texas against tx, atm, tech and ou, given how empty the cubbord was when gundy took over (after necessary house cleaning from gang members), this staff has done an incredible job. Not perfect. Not there yet. But incredible under the circumstances with hindsight being 20/20. Anybody that doesn't get that simply has an axe to grind for an unrelated reason....or isn't being objective for some reason. We have a long way to go to beat ou and tx in the same year, which seems to be the mantra for some here. I'd like that too, but they have way better talent than we do, hands down. Impossible to know, but i'd wager a pretty penny that this staff would kick regular ass with tx and ou's talent. They will probably do it in the future without it, but not every year. Just who we are and where we are in the recruiting food chain. Pat jones followed up 10 win seasons with a 10 loss one. Pappy waldor coached during a world war when the power schools were depleted. Jimmy johnson and les miles couldn't wait to exit stilly. Any other great coach wouldn't let the door hit them in the ass for a better offer just to get away from the ou/tx juggernaut. We have to have somebody who will sit in the fox hole and fight like hell when we are outnumbered and getting shelled instead of run for cover. So for all the "gundy isn't the right guy and will never get it done crowd", please show us your wisdom and tell us what (or who) you would replace him with. I'll be patiently waiting. I'm not a big gundy fan. But i do bleed orange through and through and would be scared to death to go back to the revolving door we have experienced in the past.

amen!!!!!!!

superpoke

07-13-2010, 01:32 PM

Pappy Waldor coached during a World War when the power schools were depleted. Jimmy Johnson and Les Miles couldn't WAIT to exit Stilly.

Minor correction: Pappy coached in the '30s, not the '40s. Had we not felt the Great Depression so hard here, we might have been able to keep Pappy around longer. Salary played a big part in his departure.

I agree that Jimmy was looking for the first good opportunity, but I personally think Les would have stayed a lot longer than he did had it not been made clear that certain people didn't want him around.

As for the revolving door, yeah, it sucks. But if you pick the wrong guy just because you know he won't leave, it will hurt more than the revolving door does.

Is Gundy the right guy? I think that remains to be seen. This year will say a lot about where we are.

pistolpete2002

07-13-2010, 02:54 PM

As for the revolving door, yeah, it sucks. But if you pick the wrong guy just because you know he won't leave, it will hurt more than the revolving door does.

I'm assuming that you are implying that Gundy is the wrong guy. Well my question is:

How does 4 bowls in 5 years and back to back 9 win seasons and better recruits than we've ever had and trying to build a strong foundation for years to come hurt more than a revolving door of coaches?????

Seriously, HOW????

osupsycho

07-13-2010, 02:58 PM

I agree that Jimmy was looking for the first good opportunity, but I personally think Les would have stayed a lot longer than he did had it not been made clear that certain people didn't want him around.

Even if you are right and Les would have stayed longer, he would have bolted for Michigan when it came open. Also if Les really cared about OSU and staying then why did he not take Boone up on his offer for the field in the stadium?

osupride97

07-13-2010, 03:35 PM

Even if you are right and Les would have stayed longer, he would have bolted for Michigan when it came open. Also if Les really cared about OSU and staying then why did he not take Boone up on his offer for the field in the stadium?

Les hasn't bolted for Michigan YET. He would probably have still been at OSU had things not gone down like they did.

OSU needed a coach with experience, not this on-the-job training crap. Oh well, we're stuck with what we got.

pistolpete2002

07-13-2010, 08:18 PM

I think it's obvious how Les felt about OSU due to the simple fact of his short stay. To say he would have been here longer is nonsense because he left for a program better than ours as soon as he could, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COACH EXCEPT GUNDY WILL DO!!!!!!!

PEOPLE GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS, COACHES DON"T WANT TO STAY AT OSU!!!!!!! This is an obvious and simple FACT!!!!!

Gundy WANTS to be here and he will not BOLT for anything and that's what a school like ours needs. Accept it, deal with it and realize that we've just had 4 of our most successful years ever and realize that better times wait ahead under the tutelage of Gundy!!!!!!!

superpoke

07-14-2010, 12:27 AM

I'm assuming that you are implying that Gundy is the wrong guy.

You know what happens when you assume...;)

I'm not trying to imply that at all. I don't know if Mike is the right guy or not. To me, he hasn't differentiated himself from Les Miles enough to tell. That's why I said this year will tell us a lot, because to me, this is where we'll see what Mike has done to build up the program based entirely on his own work. If he's the right guy, we should still be OK even in what's projected as a "down" year.

That quote about the revolving door was meant more as a general statement. Look at TU basketball. They got tired of the revolving door and hired a guy they knew would stay - and then he had to resign after he put the program in a nosedive. Now, thankfully, that hasn't happened here, but it is a warning - you can't hire someone just because you know they won't leave.

Even if you are right and Les would have stayed longer, he would have bolted for Michigan when it came open. Also if Les really cared about OSU and staying then why did he not take Boone up on his offer for the field in the stadium?

I've said this before: I believe it is entirely possible that Les Miles completely forgot about that offer, or thought it was related to someone wanting to resod his yard. Even Les's biggest supporters would say "absent-minded" is a nice way of describing him.

Les also might not have thought we needed a new field. The turf that we had during Les's tenure had only been put down the year before he got here.

It's possible that Les didn't truly believe Boone was being sincere. Boone was one of the people pushing for Mike to get the head coaching job when Les got it - he was never in Les's corner. He might not have responded because he might not have trusted the guy making the offer.

Looking at Boone's track record, it's also possible he made the offer knowing Les wouldn't take it, just to keep that as a chip for later.

Point is, no one really knows except Les.

Yeah, he might have bolted for Michigan. But as much as we talk about loyalty and pride in the alma mater, could anyone really blame him for that?

I do think that if he had full support, which he never did here, he might not have been as willing to listen to LSU. That's not to say he wouldn't have gone - just that he might not have been as willing to go.

Les was set up from the start to be in a temporary situation by a faction of boosters/personnel, a fact that gets omitted a lot these days. His days were numbered when that faction took control of the athletic department (Boone and Holder).

He's fortunate that it ended in a positive fashion for him - I have a sneaking suspicion that a losing season (excluding his first year rebuilding) would have cost him his job no matter what. It may not end positively at LSU, but that's not really our concern (though I know there will be a lot of schadenfreude on OSU boards if he's dismissed).

Loyalty has to run both ways, and Les was never going to get that benefit. If he had, though, things might have been a lot different with his situation.

MajorMike

07-14-2010, 07:17 AM

I lulz at you all for still having this arguement; lulz.

There, I did it.

CanadianCowboy

07-14-2010, 12:02 PM

Lulz.....?

osupsycho

07-14-2010, 12:19 PM

Lets just say that I used to have a much higher opinion of Les before I heard a lot more details of him and his actions from a former player of his that I work with now. In almost every action and deed Les showed that he did not plan on staying at OSU any longer than needed and this was from the first day he was hired. Long before the leadership change. Really though why would he have long term plans at OSU? Our head coaching job was a revolving door before he got here and there was little reason to believe it wouldn't be once he become coach. You either did good enough to move to another coaching spot or did poorly enough to get fired. The point most of us are making is that Gundy is the first real chance we have to change that and he has not done anything near enough to this point to get rid of him and get back on that treadmill.