Arizona state law on immigration

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Interesting. We'll see how that goes.

But I've got to say that I read an editorial by Susan Estrich yesterday. She was all over the "racial profiling" potential of this. I just hate that assumption. Then, as I was skipping through the channels last night, Anderson Cooper repeated the same thing.

I just don't see it. I really don't.

Millions of people walk around with a little weed in their pocket. As long as they don't do anything STUPID, nobody cares. Millions of people walk around who are illegally in the country. As long as they don't do anything STUPID, nobody cares....

[Ivan]

Some people don't see that these people hurt us by not paying taxes and having no health care. They drive up health care costs because they can't pay for it, and by them not paying taxes, but using roads and other tax funded services, they get it for free.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

I'm not talking about anything except the "racial profiling" angle.

[JimBob]

editorial by Susan Estrich

We're all doomed!:ex_omg:

[WyomingOSUAlum]

:)

[Ivan]

I read Obama doesn't like this one bit. If he doesn't like it, then he needs to send the army to help secure the border!

[wood911]

I read Obama doesn't like this one bit. If he doesn't like it, then he needs to send the army to help secure the border!
That's my take as well, Arizona had to do something because of escalating violence and drug trafficking. No politician wants to touch the issue because of the large voting block they could lose.
Why not set up checkpoints like they do here? Then you check everybody for car insurance, valid driver's license, drinking excessive alcoholic beverage, etc., and citizenship. Does that still qualify as profiling?
I read somewhere that 10-20% of Mexico's GDP came from money sent back to Mexico by illegals in the US. I don't know if that is true or not.
I still think the answer is to conquer Mexico and set up a minimum wage of $10/hour. Then Mexico would have to set up border guards to keep Americans out.:stupe:

[FloridaPoke]

A question for the lawyers on here.

The Arizona Statute makes a Federal crime, being here illegally, a State crime. How in the world could that be unconstitutional.

And I find it interesting that 30% of Arizona's population is hispanic, a majority of which are in favor of tougher control of illegals and this law. These are the poeple who "should" be worried about racial profiling.....hmmmm.....I wonder why they aren't worried about it but whiteys in DC are. Confusing.

[FalseGod]

If they stop everyone equally (white, black, asian, latino, etc) then I could maybe see an argument that it is not racial profiling, but if they go around just harassing anyone who looks like they could be Mexican, that is too far, imho. If it was say Jamaicans instead of Mexicans and they started stopping all black people and checking their papers, you don't think that would be racial profiling either?

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20100429_12_0_hrimgs256080

That didn't take long.

[FloridaPoke]

If they stop everyone equally (white, black, asian, latino, etc) then I could maybe see an argument that it is not racial profiling, but if they go around just harassing anyone who looks like they could be Mexican, that is too far, imho. If it was say Jamaicans instead of Mexicans and they started stopping all black people and checking their papers, you don't think that would be racial profiling either?

You are assuming there is no other variable or factor other than "looking Mexican" to constitute probable cause. LUDICROUS Give cops some credit here. When a population is already 30% hispanic, law enforcement people will NOT stop everyone that looks Spanish. That's over a million people.

But it is ALREADY against the law to be in Arizona illegally. But the States are forced to pay for the unfunded mandates (schools and healthcare, roads and infrastructure) of the Federal Gov't REFUSING to enforce a Federal Law.

So a State saying we need a tool to enforce an already existing law seems pretty rational to me.

What am I misssing.

PS: Probable Cause is a Van made to hold 6 people, with 32 people in it heading North through the Desert. I don't think legal hispanics have a problem with stopping these people to "check them out", and it aint racial. It's common sense.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

If they stop everyone equally (white, black, asian, latino, etc) then I could maybe see an argument that it is not racial profiling, but if they go around just harassing anyone who looks like they could be Mexican, that is too far, imho. If it was say Jamaicans instead of Mexicans and they started stopping all black people and checking their papers, you don't think that would be racial profiling either?



I don't know of ANYBODY who thinks it's OK to ask for ID based upon the level of sun tan that a person was born with. PERIOD.

I just resent the assumption that cops will use this as permission to engage in racial profiling.

[bleedorange]

Probable Cause is a Van made to hold 6 people, with 32 people in it heading North through the Desert.

That just sounds like a roofing crew.

[wood911]

Looks like the new law is already working. I wonder where they are going?
http://www.examiner.com/x-15870-Populist-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Illegal-immigrants-leaving-Arizona-over-new-law

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

When all of the Mexicans are gone who are we going to blame our problems on?

[pistolpete2002]

when all of the mexicans are gone who are we going to blame our problems on?


obama......

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

and carter

[Ivan]

True or False, is it a federal crime to enter the USA with out permission?

So why is it bad that it's now a state crime? Az is giving its state authorities the same rights that federal authorities have about asking people for proof that they are not here illegal. I guess I don't see what's wrong. Illegals are hurting this country. Are they all? of course not, but there are plenty of them that are coming here, working and sending their money back to mexico, and not paying any state or fed taxes. Then there is the drugs that are brought in by mules.

If Obama doesn't want to put his attention on jobs, then he needs to secure that damn boarder.

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

The law has nothing to do with immigration. It has everything to do with racial profiling. It encourages local law enforcement to harass brown people. That it. If you look like a messican then you are targeted. And if Johnny Law thinks that his time is better spent doing SOMETHING THAT REALLY MATTERS instead of checking IDs he can be sued for not introducing prejudice into his police work.

I can't wait to see the Oklahoma bill that is going to come out of this. It will be called the White People Only/Women are only Sperm Ovens Act of 2010. If there has ever been a state legislature that can stack their shit higher than anyone else it is the current one.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

The law has nothing to do with immigration. It has everything to do with racial profiling. It encourages local law enforcement to harass brown people. That it. If you look like a messican then you are targeted. And if Johnny Law thinks that his time is better spent doing SOMETHING THAT REALLY MATTERS instead of checking IDs he can be sued for not introducing prejudice into his police work.
.



Exactly what part of this law does that?

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

It's like the 2nd thing mentioned in the bill. the first 3 or 4 paragraphs cover exactly how to racially profile and then in so many words it say "oh yeah, and anyone can bring a civil lawsuit any government employee they think isn't being bigoted enough". $1000 min fine.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

I read the law and still cannot see what you're referring to. It would help if you posted the text you're talking about.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Just a side note: Anybody who is arrested in our county gets their immigration status checked. ANYBODY who is arrested. As a result, we end up with lots of white people who are in violation of immigration law who are deported (mostly Russia and other former Soviet republics).

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

Subsection G on p. 2 (http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf)

Really if anyone is getting the hose down on this thing it's the local and state police. Not only making them primarily responsible for enforcing federal immigration laws, but making them liable for not enforcing them well enough. It's a dumb law that does nothing except institutionalize racial profiling and throw law enforcement under the bus. I didn't read anything in the bill about additional funding for new cops to do the jobs of the cops that are now essentially bouncers either.

http://www.kgun9.com/global/story.asp?s=12386648

[WyomingOSUAlum]

G. A PERSON MAY BRING AN ACTION IN SUPERIOR COURT TO CHALLENGE ANY
OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL
SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE THAT ADOPTS OR IMPLEMENTS A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR
RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL
EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW. IF THERE IS A JUDICIAL FINDING THAT AN
ENTITY HAS VIOLATED THIS SECTION, THE COURT SHALL ORDER ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. THAT THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT THE ACTION RECOVER COURT COSTS AND
ATTORNEY FEES.
2. THAT THE ENTITY PAY A CIVIL PENALTY OF NOT LESS THAN ONE THOUSAND
DOLLARS AND NOT MORE THAN FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR EACH DAY THAT THE POLICY
HAS REMAINED IN EFFECT AFTER THE FILING OF AN ACTION PURSUANT TO THIS
SUBSECTION.


OK, I'm still missing the part where racial profiling is encouraged.

In the meantime, I just checked our jail roster for persons waiting for deportations. Currently, we have 5 people who are waiting for ICE to come and get them. Four are from Mexico. Their charges are:

Suspect #1: Mexico. DUI.

#2: Russia. Delivery of controlled substance

#3: Mexico. Obtaining property by false pretense

#4: Mexico. Beating the crap out of his wife and preventing her from calling 911 by ripping the phone out of the wall.

#5: Mexico. Battery on a household member


Frankly, I think we're better off without these people. I don't care what color they are. Good riddance.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Also, you may not be aware of this provision of the US Code:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/usc_sec_42_00001983----000-.html

TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983
Prev | Next § 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
How Current is This? Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.


If I, as a peace officer, violate somebody's civil rights, I can personally be held accountable in federal court under both civil and criminal law. The agency that employs me can be sued for millions of dollars.

Let's just call that "incentive" to do the right thing.

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

Right, and now if you were in Arizona you and the agency that employs you can be sued if you don't. Do check the immigration status of everyone that you come in contact with during your day?

[pistolpete2002]

I see nothing wrong with the law. If you do something wrong and are an illegal, you get kicked out, BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE ILLEGALLY AND SHOULDN'T BE HERE!!!!! If you do something wrong and are not an illegal, you get a ticket or a warning for doing something wrong. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL???

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Right, and now if you were in Arizona you and the agency that employs you can be sued if you don't. Do check the immigration status of everyone that you come in contact with during your day?



Hold on. Let's look at the text of the law again:

...WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON, EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION....

Can you find at least two loopholes in that clause? I can.

1. If it's not "practicable" for me to make a reasonable attempt to determine immigration status, I don't have to do it. Sorry, but we're busy and I just don't have time. Gotta go. Bye.

2. I deal with two groups of people, generally. Witnesses and suspects. If a suspect is illegally in the country, I hope to reasonably prove that. Problem solved. If determining the status of a witness would hinder or obstruct an investigation (and I can't think of a time where that wouldn't apply), then the exception clearly applies.


And to answer your last question, hell no I don't check everybody. I don't check ANYBODY. If arrested, they are checked when they get to the jail....

[Vulgar Display of Orange]

That is Wyoming, and you make it sound reasonable. The Arizona law specifically mentions check the status of people who are suspected of committing a felony, misdemeanor in the officers presence, and traffic accidents. How many MIPs and PIs are handed out on a Thursday night at Arizona State? Is the cop going to check the status of every single person that is cited for that? Now, what if they are brown kids from the dorms instead of white kids from the sigma nu house?

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Well, on the felony/misdemeanor/traffic accident thing, here's the deal. Commit a felony and it's obviously a jailable offense. Misdemeanor committed in the presence of the officer = same thing, jail. So the practical implication of those two scenarios is that the person arrested will have their immigration status checked at the jail, just like it's done here.

As for traffic accidents, I think that's more likely directed at the no driver license/no insurance situation. And driving without a license is an arrestable offense, so again, a person's immigration status will be checked on arrival at the jail.

Frankly, when all the dust settles and people on both sides are finished with all the grandstanding bullshit, I think it's going to be pretty much the same as it's always been.

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Oh, and on the drunken college kid scenario, I don't know. But I'm not going to prejudge anything before it happens. If the Hispanic population in a certain area is 30%, then I would expect to see 30% of the immigration status checks to reflect that.

Personally, I'm willing to wait and see what happens. If problems arise, then address the problems.

[GoPokes83]

That just sounds like a roofing crew.

6 of 1....

Someone asked the Governor at the press conference after the signing what an illegal looked like, she answered, "I don't know". I think she may be the only person in a border state that doesn't.

[FloridaPoke]

Sam Bowie to Colonel Travis when they looked over the wall and saw 3,000 Mexicans headed their way: "Are we laying concrete today?"

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Duuuuuude !!!!

Satan made you do that !!!!

[FloridaPoke]

I'm just tired of being racially profiled on April 15, June 15, September 15 and January 15th. I know, it's only 4 times a year....yadda yadda yadda

[WyomingOSUAlum]

:)