For all you Sean haters

[JonforOSU]

What now? Held KU off with a heavy freshman line up a good portion of the second half. Had an excellent defensive game plan, loved the zone! Is getting Byron to play to his level. Has beat 2 top 20 teams. Why would we want a coach who has a losing record(5-6) against our current staff minus Eddie and some Sean hires?

[AnniePokely]

I haven't seen any "Sean Haters" on this board.

[Verb]

And if they decide to show up, I'll chase 'em off!

[JonforOSU]

Oh yeah, I don't have to serve crow on this board. Sorry, I forgot where I was at:D Can't wait for the game pics.

[BackHomePoke]

STILLWATER, Okla. (AP)—Byron Eaton heard all the rumors about how Kansas coach Bill Self was going to return to Oklahoma State to take over for Sean Sutton. Then he made a statement to try to prevent it from happening.

Eaton scored a career-high 26 points, including the game-winning free throw with 12.6 seconds left, and Oklahoma State knocked No. 4 Kansas out of first place in the Big 12 with a 61-60 upset on Saturday.

“I’ve been hearing things about when Coach Sean is out at the end of the season, and I don’t want that to happen,” said Eaton, a junior point guard. “I’m going to try to do whatever I can do for my coach to stay here and for me to have a great senior year.

“If they still do that and it happens, it happens. But I’m going to fight for my coach.”

Eaton was fouled by Sasha Kaun as he drove to the basket, and he made the first free throw before missing the second.

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Kansas grabbed the rebound and worked the ball to Brandon Rush, but he missed a 3-pointer from the left corner before fans rushed the court to celebrate the Cowboys’ third straight victory.

“It just comes down to heart. We out-toughed them, and I think we wanted it more than they did,” Eaton said.

Earlier this week, Self called the rumors that he would return to his alma mater “not something that’s even worth talking about. It’s a dead issue.”

The Jayhawks (24-3, 9-3) rallied from a nine-point second-half deficit to go ahead 58-54 in the final 3 minutes. But Oklahoma State (14-12, 5-7) finished strong to knock Kansas out of a first-place tie with No. 7 Texas, which beat Oklahoma 62-45 on Saturday.

Marcus Dove hit a 3-pointer to put the Cowboys ahead 60-58 with 58 seconds left, and Oklahoma City native Darnell Jackson made a spinning layup from the left block with 41 seconds remaining to tie it at 60.

Eaton then slowed the pace before charging into the lane and drawing a whistle under the basket. He went 16-for-18 from the free throw line for the game and set a career-best in scoring for the second time in a three-game span.

“We stunk,” Self said. “We stunk in large part because of OSU and in large part because of the crowd too. We didn’t play with much poise.”

Jackson led Kansas with 16 points and 10 rebounds while playing three days after his 19-year-old cousin, Kascey Corie McClellan, died after getting shot earlier this month at an Oklahoma City nightclub. Backup guard Rodrick Stewart also played three days after Allen Stewart, his cousin and adopted brother, was shot and killed in Seattle.

Rush added 12 points, all in the second half, and Mario Chalmers scored 11. Darrell Arthur, Kansas’ leading scorer, matched his season low with six points before fouling out with 6:04 remaining.

“I don’t know that we were distracted, but we certainly gave the appearance of being distracted and not as focused because we made a lot, a lot, a lot of mental mistakes,” said Self, whose team has lost three of its last four road games.

The Jayhawks committed 21 turnovers, one below their season-high. They turned it over on six of their first 10 possessions and had 14 turnovers by halftime, when they trailed 36-32—their largest halftime deficit this season.

“I felt like we were out of rhythm the whole game. We weren’t all on the same page,” Jackson said. “I don’t know what it is, but we need to find it out and work through that so we all can stay on the same page because we played terrible today.”

Obi Muonelo had 12 points for Oklahoma State, which has won four of five after its worst start in Big 12 history. Eaton has averaged 22.7 points over the past three games, including back-to-back wins against ranked opponents. The Cowboys won at Texas A&M a week earlier.

“Sean’s doing a good job. That’s a sign of a coach is when things aren’t going well and the team starts playing better, especially late in the season,” Self said.

“A lot of times it’s tough to get a team back in when things aren’t going well. He’s obviously doing a good job.”

After using a 10-2 run to go up 46-37 with 13:22 remaining, the Cowboys started isolating Eaton and having him drain the shot clock before driving. Self was disappointed that his players, who were supposed to trap Eaton, kept fouling him.

“We wanted to stay aggressive but also eat up some time and try to make it more difficult for them,” Sutton said. “He stayed aggressive and got to the free throw line.”

With his recent play, Eaton has the Cowboys back in the middle of the pack in the Big 12.

“We all just pulled together and made some big shots, and I did what I’ve been doing the last few games, just trying to play my hardest and trying to carry my team through whatever we have to go through …,” Eaton said.

“I’m just trying to do whatever I need to do for my team to win so we can get to the NCAA tournament.”

[barryrules]

I love Eaton - he has heart and determination and knows what it means to be an OSU basketball player!

[Lewis the Pike]

I am not a Sean hater, I am sure a decision will be made after this season. 2 weeks ago, I was willing to let Sean go.

The team looked bad, and sean looked worse. We have improved, Sean has looked smarter. We beat Kansas and aTm, and we look like a much better team. That being said. I would STILL rather have another Cowboy alum, (i'll give you a clue, he works in Lawrence) as our head coach. No knock on Sean, he just doesn't have the pedigree and experience of Bill Self.

However, I don't want to let go of Sean unless we have a definite upgrade in coach ready. In addition, I feel this team (and Sean) has made immeasurable progress in the last two weeks.

Am I a Sean hater....NO; I think the success of Cowboy basketball is more important than any one person's feelings. Including the head coach!

[CaliforniaCowboy]

I am not a Sean hater, I am sure a decision will be made after this season. 2 weeks ago, I was willing to let Sean go.

The team looked bad, and sean looked worse. We have improved, Sean has looked smarter. We beat Kansas and aTm, and we look like a much better team. That being said. I would STILL rather have another Cowboy alum, (i'll give you a clue, he works in Lawrence) as our head coach. No knock on Sean, he just doesn't have the pedigree and experience of Bill Self.

However, I don't want to let go of Sean unless we have a definite upgrade in coach ready. In addition, I feel this team (and Sean) has made immeasurable progress in the last two weeks.

Am I a Sean hater....NO; I think the success of Cowboy basketball is more important than any one person's feelings. Including the head coach!


The only thing that I saw bad about any of it, was your attitude.

Sean Hater. Admit it. He's doing great. He has been doing great. He was in a tough spot and got the kids to play out of it.

Cowboy basketball will take care of itself... it's the fans that need to actually be fans and stop trying to be the AD.

You proved that you have no idea what you are talking about... I'm sure it hurts your pride somewhat, but you made the bed, so lie in it.

I'm glad that there is no longer a "decision to be made"... it pretty clear that Coach Sutton knows what he's doing, and the players love him and are playing hard for him. He has a winning record and is coming off of a 22 win season, with a strong chance for post season play again this year --- despite all the personnel adversity.

Fess up, you blew it, now get back on the bandwagon.

[Lewis the Pike]

The only thing that I saw bad about any of it, was your attitude.

Sean Hater. Admit it. He's doing great. He has been doing great. He was in a tough spot and got the kids to play out of it.

Cowboy basketball will take care of itself... it's the fans that need to actually be fans and stop trying to be the AD.

You proved that you have no idea what you are talking about... I'm sure it hurts your pride somewhat, but you made the bed, so lie in it.

I'm glad that there is no longer a "decision to be made"... it pretty clear that Coach Sutton knows what he's doing, and the players love him and are playing hard for him. He has a winning record and is coming off of a 22 win season, with a strong chance for post season play again this year --- despite all the personnel adversity.

Fess up, you blew it, now get back on the bandwagon.

I am a cowboy fan , and therefore want us to have the best coach available.

Sean has won 3 of 4 games including 2 teams we were overmatched against. That is AWESOME!

However we are 1-19 on the road in our last 20 games and our record is a hair above .500 at this point in time.

If we keep on this pace, the decision will be moot. I completely agree.

I believe in being loyal to your alma mater, but am always concerned with anyone who has blind loyalty. The freedom to question authority (EVEN BOONE AND HIS BOY) is a freedom that we should never take for granted.

[BigBadBen]

I dont get all the "Sean Hater" comments.

I havent read any comments of people who hate Sean. Most folks, myself included, want Sean to succeed, but feel it isnt going to happen. How does that make us "haters". There is no Venom being spewed like there is against Gundy.

[pistolpete2002]

I dont get all the "Sean Hater" comments.

I havent read any comments of people who hate Sean. Most folks, myself included, want Sean to succeed, but feel it isnt going to happen. How does that make us "haters". There is no Venom being spewed like there is against Gundy.

+1

I don't get why people want to call other people out. This is a message board forum to discuss opinion's. Just because someone doesn't think Sean has been up to par, doesn't make them a hater.

Calling people out, is for other boards, like op.com.

By the way, congrats to the team and the staff. We've really looked good in the past few games!!

[AnniePokely]

I don't get why people want to call other people out. This is a message board forum to discuss opinion's. Just because someone doesn't think Sean has been up to par, doesn't make them a hater.

Calling people out, is for other boards, like op.com.

By the way, congrats to the team and the staff. We've really looked good in the past few games!!

+1

[JimBob]

+2 on fire Gundy.;)

[mdpoke]

I haven't seen any "Sean Haters" on this board.

Thank you.:pete::pete::pete:

[Exit 174]

Well then save all the "+1" for OP too! :D

[Lewis the Pike]

Well then save all the "+1" for OP too! :D
+1

[panhandler62]

I'm a seam hater. I like nice, smooth transitions, not those buky seams that dig into your....

Excuse me.. uh.. oh seaN .... uh.....

nevermind

[FloridaPoke]

The only thing that I saw bad about any of it, was your attitude.

Sean Hater. Admit it. He's doing great. He has been doing great. He was in a tough spot and got the kids to play out of it.

Cowboy basketball will take care of itself... it's the fans that need to actually be fans and stop trying to be the AD.

You proved that you have no idea what you are talking about... I'm sure it hurts your pride somewhat, but you made the bed, so lie in it.

I'm glad that there is no longer a "decision to be made"... it pretty clear that Coach Sutton knows what he's doing, and the players love him and are playing hard for him. He has a winning record and is coming off of a 22 win season, with a strong chance for post season play again this year --- despite all the personnel adversity.

Fess up, you blew it, now get back on the bandwagon.

Pretty harsh CC. I don't believe LtP has ever written anything to justify this. Maybe you guys are buddies and some of this should have been written in blue. I don't know.

[AnniePokely]

Fess up, you blew it, now get back on the bandwagon.

Yea, there's no reason for that. We can all have opinions without being called bandwagon fans.


Not sure how i missed that post..

[Lewis the Pike]

Pretty harsh CC. I don't believe LtP has ever written anything to justify this. Maybe you guys are buddies and some of this should have been written in blue. I don't know.

I consider him a pal, we caravaned to Phoenix for the Insight Bowl.

I think he's a good guy. We just disagree on this issue. Which is fine with me.

Maybe we'll get togather in San Diego, watch the Cowboys win some baseball games, drink some beers and it'll all be good again!

:pete::pete::pete::pete::pete:

[BleedingOrange]

I'm still not sold on how far Sean will take this program.

As a Basketball Coach, I'm not sure there is anyone that knows the X's and O's of basketball any better than Sean. But a "HEAD COACH" must be more than that. In my opinion, the main job of a head coach is to motivate his team, as well as, their supportrs. Having heard Sean talk on several occassions, I see this as his short coming. This is also the Biggest difference between Sean and Mike. After hearing a speach from Mike, even the fans are ready to go out and hit somemone. I just don't get the same feeling after listening to Sean.

Hopefully he will continue to prove me wrong, as I wish him all the best.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Yea, there's no reason for that. We can all have opinions without being called bandwagon fans.


Not sure how i missed that post..


Well then, you missed it twice... perhaps I should have said get back on the fan wagon...

I've always considered us to all be on the band wagon, it's just a few that keep jumping on and off when they see a trend of groundswell and support....

[CaliforniaCowboy]

I consider him a pal, we caravaned to Phoenix for the Insight Bowl.

I think he's a good guy. We just disagree on this issue. Which is fine with me.

Maybe we'll get togather in San Diego, watch the Cowboys win some baseball games, drink some beers and it'll all be good again!

:pete::pete::pete::pete::pete:

not until after I administer a noogie and a wedgie . . . when our team and our coach needed the support, you were not there... face it.

Looks like the Sunday game against SDSU would be the best one... I'll buy the beer.

[Lewis the Pike]

As long as the beer isn't contingent on the wedgie; I can live with the noogie.

:D

[Lewis the Pike]

Yea, there's no reason for that. We can all have opinions without being called bandwagon fans.


Not sure how i missed that post..


Well then, you missed it twice... perhaps I should have said get back on the fan wagon...

I've always considered us to all be on the band wagon, it's just a few that keep jumping on and off when they see a trend of groundswell and support....

To quote a line from Public Enemy, "Pressure makes diamonds" :D

[CaliforniaCowboy]

[QUOTE=CaliforniaCowboy;11526]

To quote a line from Public Enemy, "Pressure makes diamonds" :D

I'm pretty sure that pressure is a leading cause of flatulance too.

[Inky29]

I don't think there are many Sean haters out there, just like I don't think there are many Gundy haters out there (I know of a few that actually hate Mike but not many that hate Sean). However up until this last week the biggest problem had been consistensy and finishing off halves. The last two weeks that hasn't been near the problem as before and thus we've looked better and won some big games. I think everyone hopes it continues and we can move past all this stuff but the level of frustration has been warranted no doubt. The last two years there has been more than enough talent to make the NCAA tournament and right now it looks like we are going to fall short. Losing Curry was a big blow to this years team but there was still enough talent to make a serious run at a NCAA bid. Unfortunately we blew two games at home early in the conference and just flat didn't show up on the road with the exception of one game this year. That's a recipe for being overlooked come the end of the season no matter how we finish off. That will make 3 straight years of no NCAA tournament and that's not the way the program should be moving.

Like I've said in other threads, I'm still hoping like heck for a tournament win. The Big 12 doesn't have a truly dominant team this year so anythings possible. These guys are finally starting to get some confidence and Sean has switched up some things with his coaching style by going back to some of his father's stuff so it just might work.

[AnniePokely]

Yea, there's no reason for that. We can all have opinions without being called bandwagon fans.


Not sure how i missed that post..


Well then, you missed it twice... perhaps I should have said get back on the fan wagon...

I've always considered us to all be on the band wagon, it's just a few that keep jumping on and off when they see a trend of groundswell and support....

Nice save!

[CaliforniaCowboy]

I don't think there are many Sean haters out there, just like I don't think there are many Gundy haters out there (I know of a few that actually hate Mike but not many that hate Sean). However up until this last week the biggest problem had been consistency and finishing off halves.

The last two weeks that hasn't been near the problem as before and thus we've looked better and won some big games. I think everyone hopes it continues and we can move past all this stuff but the level of frustration has been warranted no doubt. The last two years there has been more than enough talent to make the NCAA tournament and right now it looks like we are going to fall short. Losing Curry was a big blow to this years team but there was still enough talent to make a serious run at a NCAA bid.

Unfortunately we blew two games at home early in the conference and just flat didn't show up on the road with the exception of one game this year. That's a recipe for being overlooked come the end of the season no matter how we finish off. That will make 3 straight years of no NCAA tournament and that's not the way the program should be moving.


Well, IMO, anybody saying that Sean didn't earn the right to take over HC at OSU, IS a Sean hater. (i.e., we don't like you well enough to entrust our program to you... move on until you've proven yourself to us, then maybe we'll treat you like Bill Self... blech!) I don't know what else you'd call it. That's a Sean hater in my book, even if they're taking the high-road of "best for the program".

I think that you are way overstating things in defense of the haters. Consistency. Finishing Halfs. Enough "talent" to make a run without Curry. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We had not experience. Now we do. Guess what; now we're playing better. Now we get it. Now it's clicking. With Curry, we probably would not have lost some of those early games, and we'd be sitting at about 18 wins right now with everybody happy as a lark.

I just don't see how you can say we didn't "show up" for conference road games except for one (presumably A&M).... 7 at BU isn't all that bad, 6 at ISU, 3 at OU which was bogus by many accounts, 7 at Tech....

I mean, come on... ISU took UT to Overtime in Ames, they beat MU the game before they beat us... Baylor has beaten A&M and KSU in Waco, OU is the team that has not been all that great at home, TT has beaten A&M, MU and KSU in Lubbick.... it's not like these were some smuck teams that only took us to the losers column on their home courts.

Sure we lost those games, but to say we "didn't show up" just sits wrong with me. We did show up, we just lost. If we had been able to maintain a little composre for a young team, then we would not have let those late leads slip us by.

[pistolpete2002]

I can handle the close losses. It's the 2 years without a road win, the off court issues, and the no NCAA appearances since Sean took over that I can't handle. I sure hope he has our team on the right track now. From everything I've read it sounds like the players are really backing him and giving their all for him now and I love hearing and seeing that.

[Inky29]

I just don't buy the whole "we are young" excuse and have no experience. People act like we are the only team in the country having to rely on some young kids or kids new to the system. The majority of our minutes are taken up by experienced players. Only Anderson is among the Top 5 minutes eaters in conference play and beyond that it's guys like Dove, Eaton, Harris, and Obi taking up the majority of the minutes. Earlier this year Obi was still struggling with overcoming the effects of his ankle injury but the kid logged significant minutes as a freshman so the excuse of him being young or inexperienced doesn't fly with me. Heck even Coach Sutton used to say that after 20 games freshmen were no longer freshman anymore. The majority of our starters and our sixth man had more than enough experience. Heck I'd go as far as to say that the two freshman that have seen the most minutes (Anderson and Thomas) haven't lost us any games. Sadly it's been the guys with the most experience that's have hurt us with their inconsistency. One game someone is all world and the next they don't even look like they were able to get off the bus. Now I don't blame Sean for that beyond the fact that he recruited the kids here but if I or anyone else knew how to get 18-21 year old kids to show up night after night they'd be making about 10 million a year.

I do believe that we never really showed up in those road games. Rivalry games like the one against OU is hardly the baramoter I'd use. We didn't show up against ISU. We got beat by a team playing more freshmen than us and not as talented. Our team lacked any direction early on and for whatever reason Sean was struggling with adapting to what this team does well. They aren't capable of just being let loose and having freedom to shoot whenever and from whereever. Over the last few games the philosophy has changed and the results have improved. There was another coach that struggled early on and that was John Smith. However Coach Smith changed up his coaching style and the rest is history. Hopefully we are seeing the same turn around right now with Sean. Time will tell.

I do find it odd that you will jump on someone that says the team has been inconsistent but you think the statement Sean has been doing great is perfectly legit. Kind of comical really.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

I just don't buy the whole "we are young" excuse and have no experience. People act like we are the only team in the country having to rely on some young kids or kids new to the system.

Heck I'd go as far as to say that the two freshman that have seen the most minutes (Anderson and Thomas) haven't lost us any games. Sadly it's been the guys with the most experience that's have hurt us with their inconsistency. One game someone is all world and the next they don't even look like they were able to get off the bus.

I do believe that we never really showed up in those road games. Rivalry games like the one against OU is hardly the baramoter I'd use. We didn't show up against ISU. We got beat by a team playing more freshmen than us and not as talented. Our team lacked any direction early on and for whatever reason Sean was struggling with adapting to what this team does well. They aren't capable of just being let loose and having freedom to shoot whenever and from whereever. Over the last few games the philosophy has changed and the results have improved.

I do find it odd that you will jump on someone that says the team has been inconsistent but you think the statement Sean has been doing great is perfectly legit. Kind of comical really.

Five of our 9 are freshmen, and Obi did not play a Big12 schedule, and missed a whole bunch of games, and played poorly trying to get back into shape... we had THREE players that had ever played a Big12 slate of games... THREE.

Anderson is an inconsistent as they get. He was all-world early in the season, now he can't break double digits, some games he comes up practically goose-eggs with no defense... that didn't cost us? Thomas couldn't stay in a game 3 minutes without fouling himself to the bench... that didn't cost us games? I don't want to single these two kids out because everybody has been inconsistent, but to say that 2 guys that are starters and played like they did some of those games, to say that it didn't "cost us" is naive at best.

okay, got cha... playing well in a "rivaly game" doesn't count as playing well on the road... got cha... can't use real facts to shed light on your skewed perceptions.

I never said our team has not been inconsistent.... I said that your characterization of them "not showing up in conference play" was over stated.

We've been as inconsistent as a team of rookies can be.

Coach Sutton IS doing great... he took a group of rookies and has them playing like world beaters... I don't know why you think that is not a great job...


Sutton Wins and Wins Big
• In just two seasons, Sean Sutton already ranks seventh in school history for coaching victories with 36.
• Sutton won four games over ranked opponents in his first season as the head coach, including victories over two top-10 foes. He is now 6-9 vs. ranked teams, including 3-4 vs. top-10 opponents.
• His Cowboys were ranked as high as No. 9 in the polls in his initial season.

I wish we would have had more depth last year and some of the players had not taken advantage of the short bench to party all night knowing that they couldn't be benched.

I wish this team didn't start the season with 2/3rds never having played a Big12 slate.

All thing considered.... it's not a great situation, but IMO Coach Sutton has done a remarkable job given the hand that was delt.

I simply think that you over stated the comment slightly . . .

[pistolpete2002]

Coach Sutton IS doing great... he took a group of rookies and has them playing like world beaters... I don't know why you think that is not a great job...

I wouldn't exactly call them world beaters, I mean we only beat A&M by 5 and Kansas by 1. We aren't exactly blowing people out of the gym.


Sutton Wins and Wins Big
• In just two seasons, Sean Sutton already ranks seventh in school history for coaching victories with 36.

7th out of how many coaches???

[osujane]

"7th out of how many coaches???"

Excellent question. :pete::)

[Verb]

Oh...so now we're starting in on Sean on THIS board, are we?

[AnniePokely]

I don't think anyone is starting in on Sean at all. It is a message board, and everyone has a right to their opinions (as long as there is no bashing) pro and con. If we limit what is/isn't talked about on this board, we become the same as the boards people complain about.

[snuffy]

Oh...so now we're starting in on Sean on THIS board, are we?

Please, no. I really really enjoy the peace, quiet and lack of insanity (I am not counting Lewis).

[MemphisPoke]

Ditto.




Notice I didn't use the +1 thingy :)

[snuffy]

Ditto.




and we thank you for keeping your thingy to yourself

Notice I didn't use the +1 thingy :);)

[Inky29]

Ok, you and I are just going to have to disagree about Obi. The guy played 17 games last year, 5 against Big 12 teams. So by the time he made it to Big 12 play this year he had 33 games under his belt with about 40% of them being against either NCAA tournament teams or major conference caliber teams. The kid, in my opinion, is hardly inexperienced by the time conference play came around. So out of our top 6 players 4 of them have had plenty of experience. During conference play Obi has played about 66% of the time, Harris 70%, Eaton 79%, and Dove 84% of the potential minutes each game. We have plenty of experience out on the court at all times. Anderson is the only other player avg. over 50% of the available mintues each game(78%). Thomas is at 50% and Adams is in about 38% of the time. So to me the whole notion that we are some young, inexperienced team just doesn't fly with me. Sure we have guys on the bench that are young but if they are only playing about 4 minutes a game that's not enough for me to add that in as a plausible reason that we have struggled.

Yeah, I don't count Bedlam in any evaluation because of the pure emotional aspect of that game. No matter if one of the team sucks you still get the best out of them just by tossing the ball up in the air. So I don't really give much credit or take much away based upon what happens in a game like that. It's not naive it's me being a realist. If you want to use the game to evaluate knock yourself out, I just choose not to so I can get a better reading on things. If that was the only game we'd played in conference then sure I'd use it to evaluate us but we have 11 other games to look at.

I also don't see how someone can say he has these rookies playing like world beaters when the rookies have played a really small roll in our last two wins. Actually they've probably been the two worst games by Thomas and Anderson as far as effectiveness. When you have 4 other guys in your main rotation that are your leaders of the team I just don't expect much from the few youngs guys that are actually having to log minutes. So once again you and I are going to have to disagree that he has the rookies playing like world beaters now when in reality their numbers the last few games have gone down. Now what has happened is our leaders of the team have put together 3 games in a row playing up to their abilities. So no, I don't blame the rookies for our losses or our inconsistencies.

In my mind the criticism of Coach Sean has been warranted. The whole notion of him being delt a bad hand is funny to me as well. I mean he got to pick the cards he delt him self so I don't have just a ton of sympathy for someone the deals himself a bad hand after being able to stack the deck before the cards are delt. Right now the team is playing better. After the A&M game I actually said that if we could go 3-2 or 2-3 over that stretch of games I'd be pretty happy, right now we are on track to do much better than that and Sean deserves all the praise he gets in doing so, just like he deserved all the blame when things were going so bad.

I hate getting to the end of a season, like I have in football, and look back and play the what-if game. That's where I'm at right now with the basketball program for the last two years. There are 4 games off the top of my head we should have not lost this year in Big 12 play. Switch that around and we are a close to a Top 25 team this year. It's the consistincy that we have been lacking the last two years and that is what drives me the most insane. It's not lack of talent, it's not having to play a few young players, it's simply the fact that we have struggled putting together consistent effort night after night. I just don't want our program to turn into a what if program.

[okstatepike]

I can handle the close losses. It's the 2 years without a road win, the off court issues, and the no NCAA appearances since Sean took over that I can't handle. I sure hope he has our team on the right track now. From everything I've read it sounds like the players are really backing him and giving their all for him now and I love hearing and seeing that.

I could not agree with this more. This has been a really rough season, so at this point I am looking for improvement - which I am seeing. If we keep getting better, then we better keep Sean.

[Kurt_Glasscock]

Sean's biggest problem was that after his team started 15-1, it proceeded to lose 24 of its next 42 games. That is a lot of losing for Pokes proud of what this program has accomplished over the last 17 years. We were so bad in the non-conference this year (too little offensive structure, demoralizing losses, etc) that when we started to gradually improve in conference play it got masked because we were continuing to lose. Now the team wins 3 games in a row, and it makes it much easier to see that Sean had made adjustments along the way and the players were still listening to and improving under this coaching staff.

[Verb]

I don't think anyone is starting in on Sean at all. It is a message board, and everyone has a right to their opinions (as long as there is no bashing) pro and con. If we limit what is/isn't talked about on this board, we become the same as the boards people complain about.

I have never limited anyone's comments. Don't plan to start now.

[JimBob]

Let's defer this discussion until our problems with mediocre football are resolved.:p

"We're gonna knock their eyes out" - Jimmy Johnson
"The Gass-House Gang" - Floyd Gass
"Well, men, we're gonna go out there and make 'em hyperventilate" - Jim Stanley,

and the old standby for my 44 years of football, "just wait 'til next year"!:rolleyes:

[Verb]

JB, ya big goof...

[FloridaPoke]

Ok, you and I are just going to have to disagree about Obi. The guy played 17 games last year, 5 against Big 12 teams. So by the time he made it to Big 12 play this year he had 33 games under his belt with about 40% of them being against either NCAA tournament teams or major conference caliber teams. The kid, in my opinion, is hardly inexperienced by the time conference play came around. So out of our top 6 players 4 of them have had plenty of experience. During conference play Obi has played about 66% of the time, Harris 70%, Eaton 79%, and Dove 84% of the potential minutes each game. We have plenty of experience out on the court at all times. Anderson is the only other player avg. over 50% of the available mintues each game(78%). Thomas is at 50% and Adams is in about 38% of the time. So to me the whole notion that we are some young, inexperienced team just doesn't fly with me. Sure we have guys on the bench that are young but if they are only playing about 4 minutes a game that's not enough for me to add that in as a plausible reason that we have struggled.

Yeah, I don't count Bedlam in any evaluation because of the pure emotional aspect of that game. No matter if one of the team sucks you still get the best out of them just by tossing the ball up in the air. So I don't really give much credit or take much away based upon what happens in a game like that. It's not naive it's me being a realist. If you want to use the game to evaluate knock yourself out, I just choose not to so I can get a better reading on things. If that was the only game we'd played in conference then sure I'd use it to evaluate us but we have 11 other games to look at.

I also don't see how someone can say he has these rookies playing like world beaters when the rookies have played a really small roll in our last two wins. Actually they've probably been the two worst games by Thomas and Anderson as far as effectiveness. When you have 4 other guys in your main rotation that are your leaders of the team I just don't expect much from the few youngs guys that are actually having to log minutes. So once again you and I are going to have to disagree that he has the rookies playing like world beaters now when in reality their numbers the last few games have gone down. Now what has happened is our leaders of the team have put together 3 games in a row playing up to their abilities. So no, I don't blame the rookies for our losses or our inconsistencies.

In my mind the criticism of Coach Sean has been warranted. The whole notion of him being delt a bad hand is funny to me as well. I mean he got to pick the cards he delt him self so I don't have just a ton of sympathy for someone the deals himself a bad hand after being able to stack the deck before the cards are delt. Right now the team is playing better. After the A&M game I actually said that if we could go 3-2 or 2-3 over that stretch of games I'd be pretty happy, right now we are on track to do much better than that and Sean deserves all the praise he gets in doing so, just like he deserved all the blame when things were going so bad.

I hate getting to the end of a season, like I have in football, and look back and play the what-if game. That's where I'm at right now with the basketball program for the last two years. There are 4 games off the top of my head we should have not lost this year in Big 12 play. Switch that around and we are a close to a Top 25 team this year. It's the consistincy that we have been lacking the last two years and that is what drives me the most insane. It's not lack of talent, it's not having to play a few young players, it's simply the fact that we have struggled putting together consistent effort night after night. I just don't want our program to turn into a what if program.

Very intelligent and well thought out post. I feel that Sean has been subjected to the most negative "perfect storm" imaginable. As Sean has been the Head Coach Designate (for one) and the primary recruiter during that Eddie period (for second), he doesn't get a free pass, nor should he. However, the crap that has happened with personnel here the past couple of years is neither all his fault either.

With perfect chemistry and efficiency, we should not have expected much more this year without an experienced (and physically imposing) big man presence. Without a big man presence, we were doomed.

Early to mid season, I blamed this on the coaches. With hindsight, the only problem was the coach's responsibility for balancing recruiting classes.

The past 3 games have convinced me this coaching staff can modify, adjust and react to the hand they are dealt, which in my mind is 80% of the battle.

Chemistry bothered the hell out of me for most of the past 2.5 years. It seemed we had great talent that didn't know how to play as a unit, and in my view chemistry is HUGE.

It seemed the players or the coaches weren't having any fun, and again this seemed to me to be critical.

I was one of the naysayers too.

Now, I see something different (regardless of whether we win-out or lose-out).

I see a team that has got enough s*#t in their craw to get after it. I see some clarity of purpose. I see chemistry. I see them havin fun. I see a bunch of young people that are enjoying themselves. I see some Freshmen that are future super stars.

I also see a future that requires a level of future recruiting that is so incredibly high that who knows whether we have the ability to meet it.

Will this current staff get the job done? I think they can. I think they will. I hope like hell they will. And they should be given that chance.

But after that chance, I wouldn't hesitate to make a change.

I have hired and fired hundreds (truth: hired hundreds, fired thousands).......but I have yet to see anyone fired too soon. Human nature simply doesn't allow it regardless of the organizational structure.

[osujane]

Inky and Florida, great stuff. Thank you!!