Congratulations to Mike Gundy [Archive]

OSU-DNA

11-17-2009, 10:23 AM

with the win versus TT he now has 35 and is tied for Third with Jim Stanley for career wins at OSU. He has the program headed in the right direction and will eventually become the all time leader in wins.

In addition to bringing Bill Young in this year, Mike has made another direction change by placing strong emphasis on defensive recruiting for the 2010 class. The dividends paid by the defensive performance this year have been obvious. The emphasis in recruiting will pay off down the road and will allow us to stay competitive in many games and challenge UT and the cheaters on a yearly basis rather than once every 2-3 years.

I think the next change Mike needs to implement in the program is on the offensive side by improving our pass routes. We are far too predictable in the routes we are running. Watch either the UT or TT game replays and you will see DBs running our routes better than our WRs.

GoPokes83

11-17-2009, 11:08 AM

What's his winning percentage vs the other coaches? Anyone know?

Erick

11-17-2009, 12:16 PM

What's his winning percentage vs the other coaches? Anyone know?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/okst/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/FB_09_MG_9.pdf

bleedorange

11-17-2009, 12:17 PM

What's his winning percentage vs the other coaches? Anyone know?

Where's Rovertosolo when you really need him?

Erick

11-17-2009, 12:35 PM

I'll go ahead and spell it out for anyone with the stupid notion that Coach Gundy isn't a great coach by our standards.

1. Pappy Woldorf .735
2. Paul Davis .641
3. Mike Gundy .583
4. Jim Lookabaugh .581
5. Les Miles .571
6. David Smith .545
7. Jimmy Johnson .544
8. Jim Stanley .529
9. Pat Jones .508

Congratulations Coach!

GoPokes83

11-17-2009, 12:55 PM

OSU Coaches by winning percentage who have as much experience as Gundy. (4 years or more.) Gundy's just above average.

Waldorf .735
Davis .641
Lookabaugh.581
Miles .571
Johnson .544
Gundy .540, ( as of last year, this year should jump him up)
Stanley .529
Jones .508
Speegle .463
Whitworth .451
Simmons .441
Maulbetch .437
McCutchin .339

Erick

11-17-2009, 01:34 PM

I guess it's all in how you want to look at it. In your case it's certainly as negative as humanly possible.

Just above average my arse. What next, a minimum of 10 years experience?

pistolpete2002

11-17-2009, 03:21 PM

GoPokes83

11-17-2009, 04:11 PM

I guess it's all in how you want to look at it. In your case it's certainly as negative as humanly possible.

Just above average my arse. What next, a minimum of 10 years experience?

It's unfair to compare records of people who were here for 1 or two seasons against someone who was here for 12. So you find a common base on which to judge. In this case Gundy has been here over 4 but not quite 5 years. So 4 years is the base number. It's not exactly fair to those who've been here longer than he because he could have a few losing seasons before he's been here as long as they, but it'd just be a two or three man race if I did that so I started with his current number and used that as the minimum. If you want me to dumb it down for you any more I'm going to need for you to get one of your crayons and a circle of paper.

When Gundy has 10 years of experience, yes he should be judged against people with at least 10 years experience. Going into this season he was 6th in a field of 13, THAT'S just above average, As I said in my post his wins this year will certainly elevate his position. But this year isn't over, so it's unclear just what those numbers are just yet so that's an unknown variable . Who knows where he'll rank among those coaches who were here much longer than he when their years catch up? Could be anywhere from the very the top, to the bottom. You could probably do a year by year analysis of winning percentage per coach and figure out where he really ranks.

And in the 4 years he was here Miles DID have a better winning percentage than Gundy had in his first 4. Not a huge lead, but he did have a better percentage. But that's just honest math, don't let that get in your way.

ORANGEMAN

11-17-2009, 04:28 PM

Yes, Miles had a better record in the first 4 years than Gundy.

Miles started with a good base of talent , and Mike started with much less talent left by Miles.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-17-2009, 04:35 PM

GoPokes83

11-17-2009, 05:23 PM

orangeo

11-17-2009, 06:41 PM

It is hard to compare coaches from different eras. OSU has been in multiple conferences over the years, and coaches had varying levels of support from the administration and supporters.

For example, Pat Jones may have a record of 0.508, but he had no support
(our athletic budget during his tenure was approximately ZILCH) and we were on probation during part of his time, which killed recruiting.

Gundy on the other hand has had financial support unlike any other coach in OSU history. That is not to say he hasn't done a good job. He has. Just to say there is no fair way to compare these different coaches.

Erick

11-17-2009, 07:32 PM

This season will greatly improve Gundy's winning percentage, but it'll take another half decade before we know if he's even close to the best. It'll be tough to keep consistent seasons at this level because it's a down year for the B12. But he's improved every year, so we'll see.

Since his total wins were not good enough, you wanted to know his winning percentage. You got it and are still not satisfied. The man is winning more games than most coaches here and is third in winning percentage to date. He could show up to your house with a box of Omaha Steaks and you would still find something to complain about.

The Big XII is still the same Big XII. One championship contender and multiple bowl teams. You seem to find any excuse to take away the credit the coaches and players have earned. 8-2, with a great chance at 9-2 by the end of the week. You think they would be given a little credit.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-17-2009, 08:27 PM

I definately would not say that the Big12 is down... at least not until it's over....

we have 1 team in the MNC hunt; and two in the BCS hunt... just like always; and will likely have MORE bowl eligible teams than most years.

There are currently fewer teams in the top 25, but that too could change before it's all said and done.

JimBob

11-17-2009, 09:00 PM

What's his winning percentage vs the other coaches? Anyone know?

Stoops/Brown?? :officechair:

BigBadBen

11-18-2009, 06:08 AM

Miles improved quickly with Simmons players and an influx of JUCOs; then started trailing off before he left..

Gundy started further behind, IMHO, and has climbed steadily every year.

Exactly.

Miles went the "Win Now & Improve MY stock" approach, so he could get higher tier job.

Gundy has gone the "Build for the future & Improve the TEAMS stock" approach, so he could turn the Cowboys into a higher tier job.

Two completely different mindsets.

OSU-DNA

11-18-2009, 07:24 AM

The real question for those of you who doubt Mike is whether you believe in the direction of the program. I anticipate a dip next year during the transition from this senior laden team but the offense has for several years generated numbers most teams in the country would wish for and the new emphasis on recruiting defensive players is the cement to put the program in the top tier nationally.

Our history shows we competed in lower level conferences prior to joining the Big 8 and a quick look at the Big 8 shows only two consistent programs over its life. The Big 12 may or may not be the best conference in the country, but the Big 12 South has clearly been the best division of any conference during Mike's tenure.

I personally do not agree with many of the play calls during a game, but I agree the offense needed to be changed from the Miles approach, the running game is vital for a top tier program, and the emphasis on defense creates the opportunity for championships.

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 07:47 AM

Since his total wins were not good enough, you wanted to know his winning percentage. You got it and are still not satisfied.

This is getting to be like explaining an airplane to a dog. It's not about satisfaction, it's just about numbers and fair comparisons. You can't just count total wins because there were years we only played 6 or 8 games, so you go with winning percentage of games played. When this season is over we'll know what his winning percentage is through this year. It will be much higher than it was last year. BUT! You can't really compare the won / loss percentage of someone who's been here 5 years to someone who's been here for a longer period of time because the other coaches have had many more years to either win or lose games.

The way you're seeing it is; If you were here one year and coached 12 games and won 8 that would make you the greatest coach we've ever had. That'd be fair, right?

And this is a down year for the Big 12. If every team in the conference had to play their own teams from last year, how many would still win? Colorado? Nebraska maybe, Texas probably.

Omaha Steaks? Really????? Erick my amigo, you need to find a decent butcher.

Erick

11-18-2009, 08:27 AM

This is getting to be like explaining an airplane to a dog. It's not about satisfaction, it's just about numbers and fair comparisons.
You can't just count total wins because there were years we only played 6 or 8 games, so you go with winning percentage of games played. When this season is over we'll know what his winning percentage is through this year. It will be much higher than it was last year. BUT! You can't really compare the won / loss percentage of someone who's been here 5 years to someone who's been here for a longer period of time because the other coaches have had many more years to either win or lose games.

The way you're seeing it is; If you were here one year and coached 12 games and won 8 that would make you the greatest coach we've ever had. That'd be fair, right?

And this is a down year for the Big 12. If every team in the conference had to play their own teams from last year, how many would still win? Colorado? Nebraska maybe, Texas probably.

Omaha Steaks? Really????? Erick my amigo, you need to find a decent butcher.

Right, The wings of an airplane generate most of the lift to hold the plane in the air. To generate lift, the airplane must be pushed through the air. The jet engines, which are located beneath the wings, provide the thrust to push the airplane forward through the air. The air resists the motion in the form of aerodynamic drag. Some airplanes use propellers for the propulsion system instead of jets....good boy, here is a treat.

Here are some facts for you:
1. Gundy is in the top 5 of the most winning coaches in school history
2. Gundy currently is in the top 3 with win/loss percentage in school history.
3. Gundy's recruiting classes have been in the top 25 more often than anyone elses.
4. Gundy could hand deliver free beef to your house and you would complain about the quality.

You have said that you are not a fan of Gundy, and that's your deal, but to rewrite the curriculum as to what makes a good coach just to prove your point is beyond stubborn. In doing so, it also negates what the players and other coaches have done this year. Go ahead and moan about the direction we are heading, I am thrilled about what is happening with our football program. I don't know if you wanted someone specific to replace a bolting Les Miles, or if Gundy stole your lunch money, but you just have to face the fact that he will be here whether you like him or not.

I also challenge you to provide the name of a coach that can (1) actually be persuaded to come to OSU (2) win as effectively as Gundy, (3) not use our University as a stepping stone. Until then, take a page from the pilgrims this following week and be thankful.

Oh, and I have an excellent butcher. I am going there today to buy some buffalo meat for my tailgate chili.
Cossey's Meat
226 N Mustang Rd
Mustang, OK 73064
(405) 256-0101

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 09:50 AM

You have said that you are not a fan of Gundy, and that's your deal, but to rewrite the curriculum as to what makes a good coach just to prove your point is beyond stubborn. In doing so, it also negates what the players and other coaches have done this year. Go ahead and moan about the direction we are heading, I am thrilled about what is happening with our football program. I don't know if you wanted someone specific to replace a bolting Les Miles, or if Gundy stole your lunch money, but you just have to face the fact that he will be here whether you like him or not.

You could describe Gundy's private parts to a police sketch artist with remarkable accuracy, couldn't you? At least from your dreams I mean.

No one is moaning about anything, and there is no rewriting of any criteria, (curriculum?). You really may want to look into that need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I've done my best to explain how you realistically best try and compare one coach to another when there are many mitigating factors, but you're just too much in love with what you want to say to comprehend anything else.

"In doing so, it also negates what the players and other coaches have done this year. " WTF does that even mean? The won / loss record for this team will be what it is. How does me mentioning that we need to wait until all the games are played to see the end results negate anything? That's either just a moronic statement, or the gross misuse of an online thesaurus.

I do wish we'd looked around before hiring Gundy, but that water's far, far under the bridge, over the dam, ang gone WAY the heck out to sea and will never be coming back. I think Mike Gundy's a decent coach, but so far not a great one. However that has nothing to do with this conversation. I have no problem at all with the direction of the program, and can't imagine that I've ever said that I have. I'm very pleased with this season, and hope next year's is even better. I have no idea why you've chosen this small thing to get so upset about.

I also challenge you to provide the name of a coach that can (1) actually be persuaded to come to OSU (2) win as effectively as Gundy, (3) not use our University as a stepping stone.

Once again the "She may be an ugly, cheating, abusive girlfriend but at least she won't leave me" defense jumps up. That's just pathetic and I wish people would stop using it..

Erick

11-18-2009, 10:07 AM

You could describe Gundy's private parts to a police sketch artist with remarkable accuracy, couldn't you? At least from your dreams I mean.

No one is moaning about anything, and there is no rewriting of any criteria, (curriculum?). You really may want to look into that need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I've done my best to explain how you realistically best try and compare one coach to another when there are many mitigating factors, but you're just too much in love with what you want to say to comprehend anything else.

"In doing so, it also negates what the players and other coaches have done this year. " WTF does that even mean? The won / loss record for this team will be what it is. How does me mentioning that we need to wait until all the games are played to see the end results negate anything? That's either just a moronic statement, or the gross misuse of an online thesaurus.

I do wish we'd looked around before hiring Gundy, but that water's far, far under the bridge, over the dam, ang gone WAY the heck out to sea and will never be coming back. I think Mike Gundy's a decent coach, but so far not a great one. However that has nothing to do with this conversation. I have no problem at all with the direction of the program, and can't imagine that I've ever said that I have. I'm very pleased with this season, and hope next year's is even better. I have no idea why you've chosen this small thing to get so upset about.

Once again the "She may be an ugly, cheating, abusive girlfriend but at least she won't leave me" defense jumps up. That's just pathetic and I wish people would stop using it..

I'm sorry if the guy that hurt your feelings is winning, but it sure is nice for the rest of us. For some reason I thought you were older than 40. Judging by your remarks, I was wrong by a few decades. Seriously?

So by your response, I guess you choose not to accept my challenge of naming another coach? Being, 8-2 right now doesn't need a "She may be an ugly, cheating, abusive girlfriend but at least she won't leave me" defense.

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 10:38 AM

Sigh..... Erick, Erick, Erick.

Who hurt my feelings again? I guess I'm just not following you. I however, apparently hurt yours when I asked what Gundy's overall winning percentage was and then stated the fact that at the beginning of the year he was just above the average. And from the beginning I have said he'll be much higher after this season. How this hurt you I have no idea, but if it'll make you feel better you can write in your diary tonight that I apologize.

A challenge of naming someone who was available 5 years ago and then predicting what they would have done? Hmmm... Aquaman? LOL that's an impossible,"challenge".

Now if Gundy were to leave there are a lot of coaches that would jump at the chance to be the head coach at OSU. How about Bill Young? Kevin Sumerlin from Houston, Chris Peterson from Boise St. or Patterson from TCU would probably be willing to jump ship. There's no lack of qualified coaches who may not kill, but would certainly contemplate it to coach in the B12 South. But there's no guarantee they wouldn't move on to a better paying job some day, so I suppose we shouldn't consider talent.

BigBadBen

11-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Okay, you hate Gundy.

Who would make a better coach for OSU?

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 10:55 AM

I already said Aquaman!

BigBadBen

11-18-2009, 10:59 AM

So you have no viable candidate, you just hate the current coach?

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 12:05 PM

Oh crap you were being serious? If so then learn to read. If not then I'm sticking with Aquaman, or one of the 4 I already mentioned.

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 12:13 PM

Being, 8-2 right now doesn't need a "She may be an ugly, cheating, abusive girlfriend but at least she won't leave me" defense.

That's your criteria for choosing a coach, not mine. "Someone else may some day leave us" , is a whiny little bitc$ of a reason for picking a head coach. I say get the best possible person available and let the cards play out as they will.

Why are you so insecure about Gundy? It's YOUR opinion that I somehow am not satisfied with him. I've not said, hinted or implied anywhere in this thread that I am.

Erick

11-18-2009, 12:51 PM

That's your criteria for choosing a coach, not mine. "Someone else may some day leave us" , is a whiny little bitc$ of a reason for picking a head coach. I say get the best possible person available and let the cards play out as they will.

Why are you so insecure about Gundy? It's YOUR opinion that I somehow am not satisfied with him. I've not said, hinted or implied anywhere in this thread that I am.

Me insecure about Gundy? Who's the one that started whining about him on a thread dedicated to congratulating him?

The fact is that third in all time winning percentage is better than average.
Out of the four coaches you mentioned, one hasn't had experience as a HC and probably doesn't want to be one. All the other guys may be competitive, but we already are. Does it not feel good that we have a guy winning here that is dedicated to staying? I wouldn't take Urban Myers if he only planned on being here two years.

With all of the diary & male genitalia talk, you are starting to argue like this is the first time anyone has called you whiny ass out. Grow up and act like you have had a debate in your short lifetime.

GoPokes83

11-18-2009, 01:29 PM

Me insecure about Gundy? Who's the one that started whining about him on a thread dedicated to congratulating him?

The fact is that third in all time winning percentage is better than average.
Out of the four coaches you mentioned, one hasn't had experience as a HC and probably doesn't want to be one. All the other guys may be competitive, but we already are. Does it not feel good that we have a guy winning here that is dedicated to staying? I wouldn't take Urban Myers if he only planned on being here two years.

With all of the diary & male genitalia talk, you are starting to argue like this is the first time anyone has called you(r) whiny ass out. Grow up and act like you have had a debate in your short lifetime.

You act like you lack enough intellegence to comprehend time. If you'd concentrate, then maybe you'd understand the concept I've repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly tried to teach you. I AM NOT SAYING GUNDY'S A BAD COACH, I AM SAYING IT'S UNFAIR TO SAY HE'S ONE OF THE BEST AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER. Maybe if I write in in bigger letters it may finally sink in, but I somehow doubt it.

I have not whined about Mike Gundy one time in this thread.

"Gundy .540, ( as of last year, this year should jump him up)"
"But he's improved every year, so we'll see."
"I think Mike Gundy's a decent coach, but so far not a great one."
"I'm very pleased with this season, and hope next year's is even better."
"I have no problem at all with the direction of the program,", etc.

This is no debate, you're walking around wearing an asshat because I simply asked what his winning percentage is compared to the other coaches. And you somehow took that as a personal insult. The problem's in your head, not mine.

andyokstate

11-18-2009, 02:39 PM

I think I just heard Chuck Norris cry.

superpoke

11-18-2009, 03:59 PM

WOW!!! By the way a lot of people talk, I thought that Les was a better coach than Gundy..... Their mistake!!!! :D

Yes, Miles had a better record in the first 4 years than Gundy.

Miles started with a good base of talent , and Mike started with much less talent left by Miles.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story.

Miles improved quickly with Simmons players and an influx of JUCOs; then started trailing off before he left..

Gundy started further behind, IMHO, and has climbed steadily every year.

I wouldn't really try to compare the two; but Gundy's early words still echo in my thoughts... that with the Les Miles offense and the Les Miles approach that we would linger in the neighborhood of 7-8 wins with an occasional 9-10 win season, be he wanted to win championships so things needed to change drastically (paraphrasing).

Really? Are we still b****ing about Les Miles?

Les has been gone longer than he was here. Why does it matter anymore?

Les Miles was a good football coach for us. He did NOT "leave the cupboard bare," as so many try to insinuate.

It might have looked like he did because of Mike's wholesale changes in his first year, but Les recruited guys like Corey Hilliard, Brandon Pettigrew, and Bobby Reid (who was a solid if not spectacular player for us), among others - guys who were important players for Mike. This season is the first that there are no players left from Les Miles's tenure.

It makes me sick that we've got people who still can't get over that he left.

Mike has recovered from a poor start and two mediocre years to put together a nice run the last two years. Why can't we just enjoy that? Why does it have to be referenced back to his predecessor, who didn't do a bad job?

It's ridiculous. Mike has overcome a lot of historical trends regarding OSU football coaches to be where he is right now. "Let Mike be Mike" and stand on his own without dragging Les into the conversation to either put him down or build him up.

JimBob

11-18-2009, 10:07 PM

'83: Looks like Saul Alinsky applies to football dissidents.:wow2:

BigBadBen

11-19-2009, 05:17 AM

Oh crap you were being serious? If so then learn to read. If not then I'm sticking with Aquaman, or one of the 4 I already mentioned.

No need to act like a childish fool.

After 2 sentences of pathetic insults and name calling, I read all of your post I could handle.

Obviously, you cannot handle an actual adult conversation so forget I asked.

CanadianCowboy

11-19-2009, 05:23 AM

Tokyoken

11-19-2009, 05:54 AM

IMHO Gundy is already the best we have had as football coach. First, he is loyal and that's something we have rarely had at OSU, second, he is aware that he needs to continue learning how to be a good coach (humility?), and ultimately, he truely does bleed orange. I have this feeling that when he makes a decision it is what's best for OSU football and not his career. That is a rare comodity in a coach... Go Cowboys!

CaliforniaCowboy

11-19-2009, 06:24 AM

Really? Are we still b****ing about Les Miles?

Les has been gone longer than he was here. Why does it matter anymore?

Les Miles was a good football coach for us. He did NOT "leave the cupboard bare," as so many try to insinuate.

It might have looked like he did because of Mike's wholesale changes in his first year, but Les recruited guys like Corey Hilliard, Brandon Pettigrew, and Bobby Reid (who was a solid if not spectacular player for us), among others - guys who were important players for Mike. This season is the first that there are no players left from Les Miles's tenure.

It makes me sick that we've got people who still can't get over that he left.

Mike has recovered from a poor start and two mediocre years to put together a nice run the last two years. Why can't we just enjoy that? Why does it have to be referenced back to his predecessor, who didn't do a bad job?

It's ridiculous. Mike has overcome a lot of historical trends regarding OSU football coaches to be where he is right now. "Let Mike be Mike" and stand on his own without dragging Les into the conversation to either put him down or build him up.

I don't mean to spoil a good rant... but I thought we were comparing coaches...

How do we compare coaches without.. aaaahhh...errrr.... well... by comparing them?

Hope it doesn't bother you that Coach Miles will ALWAYS come up in a discussion of OSU coaching history.

It won't every go away. Not ever. It is our HISTORY.

My only hope is that we don't have some guy telling us every time not to include some of our past coaches in our discussion because those posters have not moved on from the situation.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-19-2009, 06:53 AM

Some relevant news from today

Typically, a college football senior class would include about 15 players who collectively would have gotten between 150 and 250 career starts. The 22 Cowboy seniors have made a combined total of 407 starts (with 360 having been made by four-year players).

So we'll see how a "younger" teams does next season...

Most successful seniors

over the last four seasons (and with three games remaining in the 2009 season), the current oklahoma State seniors have been a part of 31 victories. A list of the most successful senior classes in oSU football history:
Senior yearVictories
1988 34
1987 34
1986 32
1985 32
2009 31
1933 30

With 3 games remaining... Gundy can tie the best performances in OSU history.... (yeah, yeah, I know we play an extra game these days.. but still)

GoPokes83

11-19-2009, 08:29 AM

After 2 sentences of pathetic insults and name calling, I read all of your post I could handle.
\

So you're admitting you lack the information to make an informed judgment on the conversation? And yet you still do. That fact alone speaks volumes.

And brain trust... I gave you the names of 4 people I thought could be considered as viable replacements if Gundy were to leave. Which of course he isn't, so the point is moot.

Erick was out of line in his comments to me and I responded in kind. Now you don't like it and want to butt in but who really cares? Because you've already said you didn't read it so obviously you're just talking out of your hat.

GoPokes83

11-19-2009, 08:40 AM

My two cents...even though I know that GP83, Pride, JimBob, and the others that didn't/don't/won't ever want MG as our football HC will give me the verbal pooh-pooh....

I have said from the instant that Mike Gundy was announced - by the time his tenure at O-State is up (by his own choice) in 2050, he will be among America's coaching legends in the fashion of Paterno & Bowden, and certainly the irrefutable champion among O-State list of coaches.:pete:

Mark it down & get back to me in 2050.:food-smiley-004:

Flame away. :officechair:

You very well could be right, and in a couple / few more years we'll know for sure. There's no flaming. Unless you'll let me call you out on assuming I don't want Gundy as the Coach. For the most part I think he's doing a good job. If you want specifics on what I wish he'd do better I'll be glad to tell ya.

IMO hiring Bill Young was the best coaching decision Gundy's made. Our offense is decent this year, but the Defense has come around so quickly under Young that it's changed the entire program. If / when Young leaves we'll be hard pressed to replace him.

WyomingOSUAlum

11-19-2009, 09:19 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36NyoChXmiY

CaliforniaCowboy

11-19-2009, 11:09 AM

IMHO, hiring the last OC and along with Wickline was the best decision.. and DeFo wasn't bad either.

Firing the cockroach was probably his best decision... and of course Young.

osupsycho

11-19-2009, 11:34 AM

Defo was a holdover from Miles staff. It was a good job to hold onto him though...

superpoke

11-19-2009, 11:32 PM

I don't mean to spoil a good rant... but I thought we were comparing coaches...

How do we compare coaches without.. aaaahhh...errrr.... well... by comparing them?

Hope it doesn't bother you that Coach Miles will ALWAYS come up in a discussion of OSU coaching history.

It won't every go away. Not ever. It is our HISTORY.

My only hope is that we don't have some guy telling us every time not to include some of our past coaches in our discussion because those posters have not moved on from the situation.

There's comparison, and then there's continuing to try to rip down Les to make Mike look better. Every one of those quoted posts said more bad about Les than good about Mike.

You want to discuss, then discuss. You want to talk history, then talk about the real history, not the revisionist crap people tell themselves so they can say everything was Les's fault in his departure.

I'm fine with the Les situation. I just don't see the need to put him down to build Mike up. That's not comparison.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-20-2009, 08:13 AM

There's comparison, and then there's continuing to try to rip down Les to make Mike look better. Every one of those quoted posts said more bad about Les than good about Mike.

You want to discuss, then discuss. You want to talk history, then talk about the real history, not the revisionist crap people tell themselves so they can say everything was Les's fault in his departure.

I'm fine with the Les situation. I just don't see the need to put him down to build Mike up. That's not comparison.

I did not rip Les to Mike look better. I have nothing against Les Miles.

You're reading way to much into it.

I never rip Les Miles. I like Les Miles. I think Les Miles did a very good job for us.

Care to try again?

GoPokes83

11-20-2009, 08:14 AM

I'm officially callin a Rodney King on this thread! (Can't we all just get along, not the beatdown)

CaliforniaCowboy

11-20-2009, 09:21 AM

I'm officially callin a Rodney King on this thread! (Can't we all just get along, not the beatdown)

come to California, we'll treat you like a King!

superpoke

11-20-2009, 11:01 AM

Miles improved quickly with Simmons players and an influx of JUCOs; then started trailing off before he left..

Gundy started further behind, IMHO, and has climbed steadily every year.

I wouldn't really try to compare the two; but Gundy's early words still echo in my thoughts... that with the Les Miles offense and the Les Miles approach that we would linger in the neighborhood of 7-8 wins with an occasional 9-10 win season, be he wanted to win championships so things needed to change drastically (paraphrasing).

Where in any of that post does it say that you like Les Miles? It's a variation on the same old "Les had all the pieces ready and left Mike with nothing" BS that isn't true.

The "Les would always be around 7-8 wins, but Mike wants championships" is also a rip, but I know your M.O. enough to let that go.

I don't really care if you like Les or not. All I'm asking is that if people are going to keep bringing him up, tell the truth. If Mike is to be compared back to him, then make the comparison with what Les actually did, not the revised story.

Back on topic, Mike is now tied with Cliff Speegle for third on the all-time wins list. His next victory will break that tie and leave him 21 wins behind Jim Lookabaugh for second.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-21-2009, 08:09 AM

Where in any of that post does it say that you like Les Miles? It's a variation on the same old "Les had all the pieces ready and left Mike with nothing" BS that isn't true.

The "Les would always be around 7-8 wins, but Mike wants championships" is also a rip, but I know your M.O. enough to let that go.

I don't really care if you like Les or not. All I'm asking is that if people are going to keep bringing him up, tell the truth. If Mike is to be compared back to him, then make the comparison with what Les actually did, not the revised story.

Back on topic, Mike is now tied with Cliff Speegle for third on the all-time wins list. His next victory will break that tie and leave him 21 wins behind Jim Lookabaugh for second.

Your opinion does not make "that" the "truth".

What I said is EXACTLY what happened regarding personnel (go look at what Miles inherited versus what Gundy inherited); and the other part about "winning championships" was a paraphrased qoute from Gundy himself (as I said).

You're the one spinning things. Me stating the facts are they actually are does not make me a Miles hater or a Miles basher.

AnniePokely

11-21-2009, 09:27 AM

Seriously?

I just read this thread for the first time. What a complete waste of 3 minutes.

GoPokes83

11-21-2009, 12:52 PM

Seriously?

I just read this thread for the first time. What a complete waste of 3 minutes.

You gotta start paying more attention. It's easier to take in 10 second bursts.

superpoke

11-21-2009, 02:37 PM

Your opinion does not make "that" the "truth".

What I said is EXACTLY what happened regarding personnel (go look at what Miles inherited versus what Gundy inherited); and the other part about "winning championships" was a paraphrased qoute from Gundy himself (as I said).

You're the one spinning things. Me stating the facts are they actually are does not make me a Miles hater or a Miles basher.

So Les gets no credit for coaching up Simmons's players? They were doing so well under Bob.

You're spinning by trying to pin all of the personnel situation on Les. It doesn't matter if they were living the thug life or whatever - they were still on the team when Les left. MIKE GUNDY got rid of those guys. Was it probably to our greater benefit? Yes. But it doesn't change the fact that they were gone because MIKE WANTED THEM GONE, not because of Les.

And as I said, Les recruited guys that were important players for Mike, just as Bob left guys behind that Les used to good effect. But it's easier to say that Les didn't leave Mike anything instead of acknowledging that.

As I said, I'm leaving the last one alone. I knew you would put "Gundy said that" out there to deflect it.

YOUR opinion does not make things the truth either, and twisting the facts doesn't change what really happened.

Seriously?

I just read this thread for the first time. What a complete waste of 3 minutes.

Best post in the thread.

CaliforniaCowboy

11-22-2009, 07:39 AM