TW: Updated: Kansas' Self on OSU speculation: `That's a dead issue'; Holder says he s

[MarkOSU]

Updated: Kansas' Self on OSU speculation: `That's a dead issue'; Holder says he supports Sutton

by: Bill Haisten, World Sports Writer
1/28/2008 12:00 AM

Asked during Monday's Big 12 basketball coaches' teleconference about the possibility that he could return to the Oklahoma State program, Kansas' Bill Self replied, ''That's a dead issue.''

Self, who played for the Cowboys from 1981-85 and was an OSU assistant from 1986-93, has been the subject of increasing speculation.

Last Friday, while being interviewed live during Jim Rome's national radio show, Self was asked about Oklahoma State. Last week, Sports Illustrated college basketball writer Seth Davis included this in his online column: ''Some folks in Stillwater harbor fantasies that they can throw enough money at Bill Self to get him to come home.''

Cowboy coach Sean Sutton has three years remaining on his contract. Entering Monday's Bedlam game at Oklahoma, Sutton's two-season record as head coach was 32-22 overall, 7-14 in Big 12 play. At No. 141 in Monday's CollegeRPI.com national rankings, OSU could be doomed to missing the NCAA Tournament for the third consecutive season.

''I'm supporting Sean Sutton. He's our coach,'' OSU athletic director Mike Holder said on Monday. ''We've got a lot of games left to play. Let's win some games. Everybody get on board and let's help him. Let's get this turned around.''

On Monday, Self said he is ''surprised'' by any talk linking him to the OSU job.

''If anyone is speculating like that, it's people not in the know at all,'' said Self, who coached at Oral Roberts from 1993-97 and at the University of Tulsa from 1997-2000. ''There's nothing there and it's not anything that needs to be addressed. Addressing it, all it does is bring attention to it.''

Self's Jayhawks, who are 20-0 and ranked No. 2 nationally, play at No. 22 Kansas State on Wednesday night.

[MemphisPoke]

Man I hope this will shut some people up. Self's words: " A dead issue".



But you just know there will be some out there that say he was saying that but really didn't mean it :eek:

[Inky29]

Hard to really argue with the people that will say it's just coach speak, I mean it's not like there are hundreds upon hundreds of examples of coaches/AD/Owners that have said one thing and then turned around and done the opposite.

My only hope is that Sean's able to stick around another year he can find us a PG (I like Eaton but we need help there) and maybe some of these other guys can improve the way Dove has improved.

[TheLoveDoctor]

Eaton almost won the game for us last night. If that last shot would have gone in....

When Eaton's not in the game we are really hurting. Sidorakis cannot take pressure while he is handling the ball yet. We need a backup for Eaton. Hopefully Page will be the one.

[Ardmoreaggie]

The day Self went to Kansas ended any possibility for him of ever coaching at OSU. He'll be a lifer at Kansas. That being said, the last time I checked, there was more than just one good coach in college basketball. Sean is sunk unfortunately, even if he is retained, the rumor of his demise this year will keep him from doing anything recruiting-wise, which will ultimately sink him next year. Its just the same as the goodenough situation. The best thing to do was to go ahead and cut her loose and start the rebuilding sooner than later. Its the best thing to do now, no matter how much we all like Sean. The only way to possibly save this would be for Holder to announce right now that Sean will be the coah next year - which he won't.

The whole situation is unfortunate.

[osupride97]

How do people "know" what Holder is going to do? I would HOPE that he will wait until the season ends to do anything drastic. Will it hurt recruiting? Who knows? There are way too many variables to consider there.

I'm just so SICK of people saying Coach Sean needs to go. Good Lord, he's been the head coach TWO years. He is one of us. It's not like he's intentionally sabotaging our beloved university's basketball program. I would bet he is way more distraught over this than any of us. And not only because his job is on the line, but because he loves it as much as we do.

He deserves one more year, at least. I am appalled at what I read on another board. I know, I shouldn't go there then. It's like a train wreck....you have to look :confused: but it still sickens me.

[Verb]

If we fire a head coach after two years, which I am SURE we wouldn't, because it would be utterly stupid, but if we did--who in God's name would ever come to work for us again?

I'm glad message board idiots don't make the important decisions in life.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

I'm glad message board idiots don't make the important decisions in life.

Sadly, they are making important decisions someplace... at least important for them if nowhere else.

Almost makes one want to pity them.

[Tiny]

I am not qualified to make the call on Sean staying or going. What I do know is for the first time in over 10 years the Pokes have lost 5 games in a row. They will not make the NCAA Tournament for the third striaght year. It has been almost 2 years since they won on the road. What worries me is if we are setting here this time next year and it has been three years since the team won a road game and four striaght seasons without a NCAA apperiance. I am torn both ways!

[BigBadBen]

Will Sean be our coach next season?
Right Now, who knows.

Will Bill Self coach at OSU in the near future?
Again, who knows.


Regardless of where you stand on the issue you would have to agree, that both parties (Self & Holder) said exactly what they needed to say. I would honestly lose some respect for Bill if he said "Oh yeah, I cant wait to get to Stillwater. My heart isnt with these guys Im coaching now." Come on!

A reporter was digging, and they ended it, thats it. Just another example of an overzealous moron wanting to "break" a story.

A lot of people think the way I do about the Les Miles issue. If he would have been honest, great, good luck. Just finish the current season & give the guys 100%. He didnt and that sucked. Would we same folks want Bill Self to give up on his kids? No.

I actually want Self to win the National Championship. With that under his belt, I honestly think it would be easier to get him to OSU, if thats the course Holder decided to take.

[osupride97]

Let me ask this question.

Why do "some" say that Bill Self is an OSU guy through and through, he needs to come back home, blah blah blah?


Isn't Coach Sean an OSU guy through and through as well?

I just don't get this eating our own bullS#$%@#%

[Lewis the Pike]

If Holder says it's a dead issue, it must be.

I really trust everything he and Boone say (sarcasm)

[Ardmoreaggie]

How do people "know" what Holder is going to do? I would HOPE that he will wait until the season ends to do anything drastic. Will it hurt recruiting? Who knows? There are way too many variables to consider there.

I'm just so SICK of people saying Coach Sean needs to go. Good Lord, he's been the head coach TWO years. He is one of us. It's not like he's intentionally sabotaging our beloved university's basketball program. I would bet he is way more distraught over this than any of us. And not only because his job is on the line, but because he loves it as much as we do.

He deserves one more year, at least. I am appalled at what I read on another board. I know, I shouldn't go there then. It's like a train wreck....you have to look :confused: but it still sickens me.

Pride,
You can't have it both ways. You can't hire Sean by saying "He does 85% of the coaching and most of the recruiting . . . He'll continue on the OSU tradition" as was said by Eddie and Birdwell trying to sell hiring an unproven head coach to lead a team that had just come off a final 4 appearance, and then come back and say "He's just been the head coach 2 years - give him some time." If somebody had told you when Sean was announced "Now he'll need 2-4 years to figure out how to be a head coach so we'll have no NCAA appearances for 3 years and no road victories for 2 years." Would he have been hired? Would you have wanted to hire him. Would you have at least wanted to conduct a national search to see if a proven H.C. might want to come to OSU.

If Eddie and Birdwell were right then Sean is 100% responsible for the way the team is now, unlike Budke, who came in completely fresh and deserved time to turn it around. If Sean is responsible for this team then we've been going downhill for over 3 years now, and probably won't get better. Nebraska kept Callahan one year too long and it killed them. We don't need to make that mistake.

P.s. - Being distraught over losses is not the issue. Julie Goodenough cried after every loss - should we have kept her?

[JimBob]

If somebody had told you when Sean was announced "Now he'll need 2-4 years to figure out how to be a head coach


Well, that's what we have in football with Mediocrity Mike; oh wait, he's Boone's boy.....:rolleyes:

[wickerbill]

Well, that's what we have in football with Mediocrity Mike; oh wait, he's Boone's boy.....:rolleyes:

At least he didn't inherit a team that had just been to a BCS game (football equivalent of the final four).

[Ardmoreaggie]

I think thats a fair question to ask about Gundy. The one difference being that OSU football has been a traditionally "middle of the pack" program while OSU basketball in the past 16 years has been consistently one of the top 20programs in the country. Do you think OSU basketball is one of the top 20 jobs in the country? I think so or pretty dang close. The expectations and the pressure to win are higher, just like other elite programs. Three years out of the tournament is too long for an elite program without a complete change in the leadership of the program.

[BigBadBen]

I see improvement in football. Granted, 7-6 isnt where we want to be, but it seems to be getting better.

Unfortunately, basketball seems to be taking a giant step backwards.

We are on some impressive streaks, but none you would brag about.


And Im torn about this whole deal. I truly admire the Sutton family. Thats why it is so hard for some folks to see it for what it is. As much as I like Sean and Eddie, I just dont think Sean is going to work out. I wish it would, and I hope Im wrong, but I have seen nothing to prove me that I am.

It stinks.

[Verb]

Sean deserves at least another year to show us what he's got.

[Cowboy76]

Just a thought:

Minimum Mendoza line for BB=NCAA tournament
Minimum mendoza line for FB= Bowl game

If Gundy had never reached a bowl game by now his butt would be hotter than Cordell in August.

I want Sean to succeed but more importantly I want OSU BB to succeed.

[JimBob]

At least he didn't inherit a team that had just been to a BCS game (football equivalent of the final four).

Good point. I guess that gets him a "pass" for the tirade, Collins, and Pettigrew.:rolleyes:

[Verb]

The "tirade" is the best thing he ever did.

[wickerbill]

Good point. I guess that gets him a "pass" for the tirade, Collins, and Pettigrew.:rolleyes:

Two bowl wins is definitely better than two NIT first round losses and a season that doesn't even look like a lock for the NIT so far.

[pistolpete2002]

Two bowl wins is definitely better than two NIT first round losses and a season that doesn't even look like a lock for the NIT so far.


Very true. Football is going for an OSU record of 6 bowl games in 7 years. Basketball is just going for 1 road win in 2 years and it probably isn't going to happen this year for the past 3 years. Football is improving, basketball is on a steady decline. Our record has gotten worse every year. Something needs to be done QUICKLY!!!

[WyomingOSUAlum]

Sure wish Curry and Cooper were still here. I know we've covered that before, but I can't help it. That was a big hit.

[rodbakeriii]

Agreed. But one thing we've seen under Sean is awful attrition. G Green, the kid that went to UNT, etc etc.

I'm all for having Sean on one more season. But, I agree with the sentiments that if we knew this was what we were going to get, we would have never hired him. We were sold on the fact that there would be a seamless transition because he had been learning on the job for so long. There was bound to be some lag time, but unlike his father, this team gets worse as the season goes on rather than the other way around. That, to me, seems like a sign of ineffective leadership.

I hate to put out the vote of no confidence, and I want to be wrong. But I think Sean is our very own Moe Iba.

And it's too bad, because Sean is one of my favorite Cowboys.

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Just a thought:

Minimum Mendoza line for BB=NCAA tournament
Minimum mendoza line for FB= Bowl game

If Gundy had never reached a bowl game by now his butt would be hotter than Cordell in August.

I want Sean to succeed but more importantly I want OSU BB to succeed.

That doesn't make any sense to me... Gundy's had THREE seasons, and Sean isn't even through is 2nd...

If Gundy didn't reach his Mendoza line until his 3rd year (this year) would his butt still be hotter than Cordell in August?

If Sean reaches his Mendoza line next year will his butt be out of the sling, or do idiots force him out before he gets his due?

The Mendoza line doesn't make a good analogy to me anyway when we're talking about multiple seasons, not one season.

[Cowboy76]

A couple of things, CC. First, I really hate we are even having these discussions. I thought Sean as a HC was a no brainer. But, let's ask ourselves these questions. Are we better or worse as a BB program today than when we hired Sean? Conference record, post season record, attendance, etc. What is our outlook for next year? So far, no real PG prospect other than Keiton(we need two), no real big man(Proby more of a 4 than a 5), no redshirts(maybe Garret but what we don't need is another wing player). Could our younger players develop? I certainly hope so.

I will be honest. When hired, I thought Sean DESERVED the job, much like Tom Holiday after Ward left. He was a loyal assistant who turned down HC overtures to have a chance to be HC at OSU. But a lot of assistants do not make good HC's. In Sean's case, he has a shorter leash because these players are HIS players. He recruited them. My opinion is just as I stated. If Sean can right the ship and the team show improvement I would be for giving him one more year. But if he does not win a road game again this year and misses the torunament again this year and posts a LOSING record in the conference(we may finish DEAD LAST), tell me one reason we should stay with him.

[JimBob]

Football is improving,


This makes me want to puke.:p Two .500 teams w/minor bowl appearances, the last not even televised on a large scale; that's not improvement. The only "hot seat" at OSU should be under Gundy's ass because Boone ain't gonna live long enough for him to produce at the rate he "isn't progressing".

[Cowboy76]

JimBob, I don't think you are paying attention. Mike Gundy IS on the hot seat and OSU football IS improving. Redshirting the majority of last year's class and another top 25 recruiting class will pay dividends. The difference between BB and FB is tremendous. Depth is so important in FB. Needing 22 quality starters plus special teams players plus depth is much different than needing 5 starters and a couple of guys off the bench. FB takes longer to become consistent. I love Mike Gundy but if he can not get the job done I will say the same thing about him as I am about Sean.

[osujane]

JimBob, at least football won 2 road games last season. That's something, isn't it?

It will have to continue improving, or Gundy won't be here either.

[MajorMike]

JimBob, I don't think you are paying attention. Mike Gundy IS on the hot seat and OSU football IS improving. Redshirting the majority of last year's class and another top 25 recruiting class will pay dividends. The difference between BB and FB is tremendous. Depth is so important in FB. Needing 22 quality starters plus special teams players plus depth is much different than needing 5 starters and a couple of guys off the bench. FB takes longer to become consistent. I love Mike Gundy but if he can not get the job done I will say the same thing about him as I am about Sean.


Can we make a list of all the RS from last year?

[Cowboy76]

To the best of my knowledge(in alphabetical order): Kenny Alexander LB, Hubert Anyiam WR(looked very good on scout team), Jamie Blatnick DE(very strong, gave our OT's lot's of problems), Josh Cooper WR(will definitely play next year), Grant Garner OL, Jared Glover LB(I really liked him when I saw him during two a days), Ahmad Jones NG(improved all fall, made an impression and should be in two deep), Richetti Jones DE(up to 250 and getting bigger), Nick Marinez OL, Adrian Moore S, Marcus Richardson LB(not very tall but a heat seeking missle, I expect to see him on special teams and the two deep), Jonathan Rush OL(Wick loves him and will be a starting tackle after next year), James Thomas DB, Marc Yerry DS, and Wilson Youman TE(improved greatly, will definitely contribute this fall as second TE).

I see 9 or 10 of these kids contributing significantly this year. None will likely start as the best ones(Jones, Blatnick, Cooper, Anyiam, A Jones, Rush and Youman) will all be behind established players. Special teams cpould take a big jump. To me, this is the best group we have redshirted in the last ten years. An extra year in the weight room is significant. Plus, most of these guys have a very high football IQ which really comes into play during crunch time.

[MajorMike]

Did Burton RS?

[Cowboy76]

If you are talking about Derek Burton, he was a sophomore last year. He did not RS his freshman year.

[MajorMike]

Really?? I thought he was just recruited last season. Isn't he the one his dad played for OSU as well?